A good move

[_Xenophon]

Did you seriously post something without reading it?

Xenophon, meet Subgenius. When he says "sub", he's not kidding.

Ya know, I've had more than enough run-ins but the sheer silliness still stuns me sometimes.

[_Jersey Girl]

And I'm pretty sure you are 100% wrong. Did you seriously post something without reading it? The Pentagon won't even comment on this and is redirecting all questions to the White House. The closest there is to an answer to that question is this:

Earlier this month, for instance, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis announced that there would be a six-month delay in implementing recruitment policies for transgender Americans so that military chiefs could determine how they would affect the force’s “readiness or lethality.”

Of course no determination of negative affect has been made, or if it has they have failed to share those findings (see the RAND study found both in the article you didn't read and my post, which you probably didn't really read). As to "the distraction", can you quantify what that actually means, do we now consider all policy updates a distraction? So let us try again. Why do YOU think this is a "good decision".

How DO transgender members of the armed forces effect "readiness or lethality"?

Where is Cam when you need his input and expertise?

[_Maksutov]

Excellent questions, Jersey Girl, and I'm sure there are no answers at this time. This is why I am generally not in favor of announcing major policy changes for our government via Twitter.

My aim is to present the precarious position of active duty and retired members of the armed forces, and their dependents, by raising the practical questions involved in this "tweet policy" who either are (or dependent on) a trans member of the military currently serving or now retired.

Ya wanna save some money, President? Get the hell rid of AFCOMS (and it's branch related counterparts) except for those outside of CONUS.

God he's stupid as ____.

Jersey Girl, he's a CEO in a family owned company specializing in real estate. He's going to try to run the country that way. It doesn't work. But he has learned to appeal to that part of the American public that thinks that government is just a conspiracy of corrupt know-nothings and that all is needed is a leader, a savior, to ride in and do battle with the forces of evil (a.k.a. "Deep State"). He's a reality show messiah, a weird artifact of our culture's lurching into social media. He's also a terrific lesson on marketing, government, business, media and other topics if we can manage to survive him.

[_Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl, he's a CEO in a family owned company specializing in real estate. He's going to try to run the country that way. It doesn't work. But he has learned to appeal to that part of the American public that thinks that government is just a conspiracy of corrupt know-nothings and that all is needed is a leader, a savior, to ride in and do battle with the forces of evil (a.k.a. "Deep State"). He's a reality show messiah, a weird artifact of our culture's lurching into social media. He's also a terrific lesson on marketing, government, business, media and other topics if we can manage to survive him.

I know exactly what he is. As I stated in the post you replied to, it was my goal to present the complexities and possible widespread effects of his tweet policy.

There are surely civilians that have no blessed idea what military benefits are about, who they extend to and why, and who think the President just made a smooth move by a policy shift that effects (at least) 1-6K members of the armed forces compared to the 1.3 million that are already in not to mention retirees, for crissakes, combat veterans.

And that's why I raised the questions that I have thus far on the thread in an effort to increase awareness.

I have no friends or family who are trans persons. Does this involve me at all? Yes and why? Because it's unjustifiable and who the hell is next?

[_Maksutov]

Jersey Girl, he's a CEO in a family owned company specializing in real estate. He's going to try to run the country that way. It doesn't work. But he has learned to appeal to that part of the American public that thinks that government is just a conspiracy of corrupt know-nothings and that all is needed is a leader, a savior, to ride in and do battle with the forces of evil (a.k.a. "Deep State"). He's a reality show messiah, a weird artifact of our culture's lurching into social media. He's also a terrific lesson on marketing, government, business, media and other topics if we can manage to survive him.

I know exactly what he is. As I stated in the post you replied to, it was my goal to present the complexities and possible widespread effects of his tweet policy.

There are surely civilians that have no blessed idea what military benefits are about, who they extend to and why, and who think the President just made a smooth move by a policy shift that effects (at least) 1-6K members of the armed forces compared to the 1.3 million that are already in not to mention retirees, for crissakes, combat veterans.

And that's why I raised the questions that I have thus far on the thread in an effort to increase awareness.

I have no friends or family who are trans persons. Does this involve me at all? Yes and why? Because it's unjustifiable and who the hell is next?

Next he will ban Muslims from the military. Watch and see. There are many conservatives who would like to see women removed as well. Seriously.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

How DO transgender members of the armed forces effect "readiness or lethality"?

Where is Cam when you need his input and expertise?

Hrm. The only thing that stands out to me as a man who affected the Army's readiness to its own detriment for 20 years is the potential medical expenses and time issues for medical recovery for transition treatment. You also get into a grey area during the transition process where you would have to figure out when to apply gender standards to the transitioning Soldier. Other than that you just have the typical who can crap/shower/shave where and who would feel like WD and PP and how to mitigate that.

Back in the 90's the Gay thing was a huge deal for the military and people griped about it a lot. Now? Meh. Bigotry is pretty much not tolerated openly, and if you're going to be racist, sexist, homophobic you better do that crap on the down low because it's 100% a career ending offense.

For as much as White people have loved to complain, historically, that Blacks, then women, then non-citizens, then Gays, and now Trans would affect our readiness it's amazing to me just how lethal and professional the active military is these days. This is literally a military that could wipe countries off the face of the earth if America had the political will to do so. So, as far as I know, our readiness will not and cannot be affected by transgendered types serving.

- Doc

[_Maksutov]

Back in the 90's the Gay thing was a huge deal for the military and people griped about it a lot. Now? Meh. Bigotry is pretty much not tolerated openly, and if you're going to be racist, sexist, homophobic you better do that ____ on the down low because it's 100% a career ending offense.

For as much as White people have loved to complain, historically, that Blacks, then women, then non-citizens, then Gays, and now Trans would affect our readiness it's amazing to me just how lethal and professional the active military is these days. This is literally a military that could wipe countries off the face of the earth if America had the political will to do so. So, as far as I know, our readiness will not and cannot be affected by transgendered types serving.

- Doc

Thanks, Doc. I'm tired of our military being dissed by chickenhawks and keyboard commandos.

[_Jersey Girl]

He shows up!

How DO transgender members of the armed forces effect "readiness or lethality"?

Where is Cam when you need his input and expertise?

Hrm. The only thing that stands out to me as a man who affected the Army's readiness to its own detriment for 20 years is the potential medical expenses and time issues for medical recovery for transition treatment. You also get into a grey area during the transition process where you would have to figure out when to apply gender standards to the transitioning Soldier. Other than that you just have the typical who can crap/shower/shave where and who would feel like WD and PP and how to mitigate that.

Listen I have to get on the stick over here with in real life but let me say this much based on your above. It's already been established that Tricare doesn't cover transition surgery. What it does cover is hormone therapy and mental health support.

What are you thinking about when you say "potential medical expenses and time issues for medical recovery for transition treatment" and would those be any different than say, the type of hormone therapy (or mental health services) that you or I might need and are covered were we both still in active duty/active duty dependent status?

What do you see as the difference?

Keep in mind that there are currently 1.3 million active duty service members PLUS their dependents vs the 1-6K trans active duty that the new policy would currently apply to.

Also keep in mind that Trump's focus is on discrimination related to health care services, he hasn't even begun to approach force separation, forced separation of active duty nearing retirement, including their dependents in terms of some of the additional military benefits I discussed above.

For crissakes I could walk into an appointment in any military hospital as a USAF Retired/my wife and arrange for elective procedures such as bariatric and/or cosmetic surgery and come out a whole new Jersey Girl, while a combat trained active duty trans person could be shoved out of the system entirely.

I'm bringing these practical issues to the forefront in order to compare the discriminatory nature of the new tweet policy.

Dear God, Trump your active duty members of the armed services and their families, deserved far better than a tweet!!!

[_subgenius]

There was a time not all that long ago that blacks were routinely excluded from regular military service in the US, because of perceived problems of integration. You really do need to crawl out of your bigoted eastern Tennessee.

Your hero Drumpf caught the US military unaware.
SEE http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/penta ... r-decision

Blacks weren't denied service for medical reasons. A person could be denied for any various medical circumstance that is deemed to be a cost to the military. For example, having a bunion that will eventually require surgery is a reason a person would be denied admission to service.
Get over yourself and get an education on at least one topic around here...your constant google-cut-n-paste scrambling to support whatever knee jerk reaction you seem to always have when your stodgy and cursory opinions are challenged and/or proven wrong.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Listen I have to get on the stick over here with in real life but let me say this much based on your above. It's already been established that Tricare doesn't cover transition surgery. What it does cover is hormone therapy and mental health support.

What are you thinking about when you say "potential medical expenses and time issues for medical recovery for transition treatment" and would those be any different than say, the type of hormone therapy (or mental health services) that you or I might need and are covered were we both still in active duty/active duty dependent status? [/i]

Aside from the fact that eventually I'm certain surgery would most likely be included at some point, because that's how these things roll, what most people don't realize is that a unit incurs the cost of TDYs in their annual travel budget for Soldiers who need care that fall outside of what a locality can provide. So, Soldiers and leaders who need to go to x-y-z locale either don't get to go because this Soldier has burned through the unit's TDY budget, or they have to find an alternative way to get there which is unlikely.

So. Say a trans Soldier is allowed to remain and he begins hormone therapy and psyche therapy odds are that's going to be a lengthy process and will require him to go TDY A LOT. The transitioning Soldier would most likely be obligated to go to top notch professionals so the Army or DoD covers its own ass legally. Odds are you're going TDY for care. That's very expensive, very time consuming, and the unit would have to cover down for the Soldier for his taskings, deployments. We're not even talking about the Soldier not getting his required training, required professional development, and working within his required duty description if he is gone too much. There are a host of complications that are far to laborious and detailed to get into on this forum that would consume a lot of his leadership's time when they're trying to stick to this FY's training and operational obligations.

And as much as the last two paragraphs might seem confusing and boring, it doesn't begin to cover the sheer amount of time his leadership will spend managing him, counseling him, coordinating for him, so on and so forth which would be a huge distraction. Either the Soldier gets neglected because leadership has no alternative but to focus on their operational mission, or the Soldier becomes a sort of time and resource black hole until he most likely gets discharged for one reason or another.

- Doc