Jerusalem: to be recognized as the capitol of Israel

[_AmyJo]

Prophetic or mayhem? Jerusalem will now be recognized as the Israeli capitol by the United States.

"Trump to recognize Jerusalem as Israel capital, delay embassy move
by ALI VITALI, ANDREA MITCHELL and ABIGAIL WILLIAMS

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump is expected to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel on Wednesday, while also signing a waiver that delays moving the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, two U.S. officials confirmed to NBC News.

Though Trump will not move the embassy this week, officials said he still intends to do so in the future to follow through on a promise made early in his administration. White House advisers have long said moving the embassy is not a question of if, but when, for the administration...."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... em-n826626

[_MeDotOrg]

My oldest friend and my best friend's daughter both live in Israel, the daughter in Tel Aviv. Moving the capital to Jerusalem will be a disaster. To what purpose, to what end? To fulfill biblical prophesy? It tells the Palestinians that they will never have a future in Jerusalem, and it tells the rest of the Muslim world that they will always have a subservient position in the capital.

It will make any chance of finding a peaceful settlement just that much more difficult.

[Guest]

[_Maksutov]

Jerusalem is the center of Abrahamism. Endless human sacrifice for "God". Best thing to do is evacuate and nuke it from orbit. Let the faithful carry pieces of radioactive glass in memory.

[_The CCC]

WW3.

[_Res Ipsa]

I have two opinions. Both unpopular I'm sure.

One, from the American perspective, I think we should mind our own business. A complete and total end to all foreign aid. No more bankrolling Israel. No more random payments to her neighbors. Ditto for Japan, Korea, Germany, etc. We're broke. Not our circus, not our clown, not our problem. I believe untethered, Israel would fare better without us. The chaos of left-right wing political shifts manipulating their behavior is unhealthy.

Two, from the Israeli perspective, their capital has been "moved" for a long time. Israel has asserted that Jerusalem is the capital since day one. Plant your flag, declare what is yours. The simple harsh truth of the world is that borders are imaginary. I don't care about any claimed birth "rights." If Israel can't stand on its own two feet, it deserves to die. Likewise for the Palestinians. If Israel were smart, they'd drive the Palestinians out... far past the borders of the Jordan river and conquer Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. But as they are they are content to let us do that for them. If they don't change their game up, they are demographically screwed and will collapse eventually. In spirit I am with them, in body I am not. Best of luck.

You may be surprised to learn that I have some sympathy for the position in your first paragraph, especially if you are considering military spending as part of foreign aid. We are spending far more than is needed to defend the homeland. Military bases tend to take on a life of their own, and closing them is politically difficult. Of course, the downside of reducing military spending is the loss of jobs and money flowing into areas where bases are located. I tend to think that our military spending is largely a government jobs program, providing folks with jobs that the private market doesn't.

But I think it's reasonable to say that, when spending taxpayer money, taxpayers should get something out of it. Now, we may be able to argue about whether a specific piece of foreign aid buys us something of value. WWII wasn't our circus until it was. Earlier intervention (by anyone) would very likely have stopped Hitler cold. So, there is the old ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. But I would agree with the sentiment that we are spending lots of money overseas and that there are cases in which we are getting little or nothing in return. And I think Israel is one example of that.

But I'm pretty confused by your second paragraph. I have a bunch of questions to clarify what you are arguing.

If borders are imaginary, then why all the fuss about defending our borders? Why not concede to the harsh truth that borders are imaginary and treat our borders as imaginary?

You seem to be saying that Israel, the country, and Palestinians, the people, deserve to die if they can't stand on their own two feet. Did you mean Palestine, as a nation?

What would Israel do after militarily conquering Jordan, Syria and Lebanon? What do you think it would be smart to do with the citizens of those countries?

Was it smart of Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait?

Would it be smart for Putin to reconquer all of the territory that made up the former Soviet Union?

Would it be smart for the U.S. to militarily conquer Mexico?

Was it smart of Hitler to conquer Austria? Poland? Belgium? France?

Are you fine with countries invading each other as long as they're not invading the U.S.?

Does concern over the suffering of your fellow humans enter into your thinking at all in this area?

Thanks in advance.

[_Chap]

I have a bunch of questions to clarify what you are arguing.

'Arguing'? So that's what Water Dog is doing!

But just as some things can't be polished, I am not sure that some things can ever be clarified - at least not without causing them to evaporate entirely.

[_Res Ipsa]

I have a bunch of questions to clarify what you are arguing.

'Arguing'? So that's what Water Dog is doing!

But just as some things can't be polished, I am not sure that some things can ever be clarified - at least not without causing them to evaporate entirely.

I use the term pretty loosely. His post read to me as both stating a position and giving reasons for that position. That's sufficient in my opinion to earn the label "argument" At this point, I'm not focussing on the argument part as much as trying to understand the position. I hope he clarifies.

[_Gunnar]

To me it is becoming increasingly obvious that the modern Zionism movement and establishment of the modern state of Israel has only caused more problems than it has solved, even for the World's Jewish population as a whole. I think it has tended to amplify bigotry and religious intolerance and injustice on all sides, and made both the Middle East specifically and the World in general more dangerous and less peaceful than it might otherwise have been.

[_canpakes]

The simple harsh truth of the world is that borders are imaginary.

Borders are far from 'imaginary', and what a handful of powerful men can do in reshaping them by force can alter or end the lives of millions who lack that same power.