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What I feared is now becoming a reality. New York Times "That is what I learned from the “exposé” of Aziz Ansari published last weekend by the feminist website Babe — arguably the worst thing that has happened to the #MeToo movement since it began in October"

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opin ... sment.html

I guess now a days it is very dangerous for a man to make a first move. I guess the LDS church is right about sex after all, to avoid problems sex should only be for marriage. So sad I am living in the 21st century. I gave up on the LDS faith about a year ago, but I am not happier.

By the way, I imagine things are worst and much more complicated when people are drunk as social psychologist points out https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/th ... ning-rape/

I can't say if he's guilty or innocent. I lean towards innocent with the understanding that I only know what's been presented to me in the media accounts.

Yes, it's scary and I doubt that these are the last allegations that we'll find questionable.

ETA: I didn't even know who this was until the allegations were made public. I had no awareness of him at all. If he's been on television, I wouldn't have seen him because I don't watch television. What's disturbing is that in at least some cases, men are losing their jobs on the word of a woman. What the hell happened to due process? There's no investigation? No, it's apparently off with their heads time. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the men band together and start a counter campaign of their own.

Hopefully the pendulum will strike a balance here before long. Don't hold your breath waiting for it.

Years ago there was a college that tried to initiate a sexual conduct permission code. Things like "may I touch your breast?" I saw a demonstration of the technique. It had all the romance of a physical exam.

I read the Azari encounter, and while he might be considered a little sexually aggressive, certainly didn't sound like a hopeless boor. Watching Seinfeld together isn't the way most of the Lifetime Movie Channel true crimes end. This was not a power subjugation story.

Ansari's behavior was overly aggressive, manipulative, and generally piggish. Seigeing a woman with pressure when there are clear signs she's not into it is not "making the first move." It's bad beahvior. As a fan of Ansari, this was disappointing. At the same time, I don't think this constitutes sexual assault. He respected clear lines of non-consent. Most of the writing I've read on this gets this distinction. For example:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/aziz-ansa ... d-predator

The extremes of reaction seem to be the original piece on the one hand - blurring the lines of what constitutes sexual assault - and pieces like Bari Weiss's in the NYT linked above that attempt to minimize Asari's culpability by misrepresenting the public account.

I think the first non-verbal cue she should've given Aziz Ansari was to remove his dong from her mouth and leave.

- Doc

EAllusion wrote:Ansari's behavior was overly aggressive, manipulative, and generally piggish. Seigeing a woman with pressure when there are clear signs she's not into it is not "making the first move." It's bad beahvior. As a fan of Ansari, this was disappointing. At the same time, I don't think this constitutes sexual assault. He respected clear lines of non-consent. Most of the writing I've read on this gets this distinctio.

You don't think? It is clearly NOT according to No means No laws. As a society we cannot afford "signs" or "cues" for serious things. Imagine "signs" or "cues" during an emergency operating room? She should have simply said "NO" from the beginning.

Look at the TYT video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meAoeOMDJVU

I was surprised because TYT typically likes to kiss the feminist's @$$, but the video was good and makes sense.

The bulk of the reaction in the press seems to acknowledge that Ansari was being a overly pushy jerk, which is especially disappointing given his public persona, but his behavior did not cross the line into assault. There's a fair amount of hand-wringing that wrapping him into the call-out culture around the metoo movement will damage its credibility. All in all, that seems on the money.

This is coming from feminist writers just the same, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to characterize feminists as a monolith who are complaining this is assault.

It's easy to forget this is a Mormon-related board where people may struggle to understand how adult sexual relationships work, but the described events show her giving plenty of reason for her partner to back off and stop pushing that were ignored. It's not assault to ignore those signs, but it's bordering on childish to think either a person needs to say "No" and leave or endure that as the only possible options for healthy interaction. She probably wanted to stay, but didn't want to take it as far as it was going and tried, unsuccessfully, to negotiate those personal boundaries. That doesn't make what happened to her assault, but people can do this. The cues in the public account she was giving were not subtle, impenetrable tea-leaf reading. It's pretty clear.

The way I have seen those sentiments shortened elsewhere:

Good news and bad news, Aziz.

Good news - you're pretty much off the hook for this sexual assault stuff

Oh, the bad news? The whole world will know you are laughably terrible with women.

I'm fairly certain this could be an episode of Master of None, if it wasn't already.

EAllusion wrote: It's not assault to ignore those signs, but it's bordering on childish to think either a person needs to say "No" and leave or endure that as the only possible options for healthy interaction.

Sexual assault is a very serious accusation. Before accusing him of sexual assault the woman should have said "No" from the beginning. So even if Aziz doesn't go to jail, it's bull*** because his reputation is now ruined

MeDotOrg wrote:Years ago there was a college that tried to initiate a sexual conduct permission code. Things like "may I touch your breast?" .

I don't think most women would say things like "may I touch your penis?"