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Billy Graham

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:07 pm
by _Maksutov
Was anyone here converted by the preaching of the late Graham? What experiences, thoughts do you have on his passing?

Re: Billy Graham

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:12 pm
by _Fence Sitter
It will be interesting to see how this thread over at MAD plays out.

Billy Graham thread at MAD

One of the OP questions is how does Graham's obituary compare to Monson's?

Re: Billy Graham

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:19 pm
by _Maksutov
Fence Sitter wrote:It will be interesting to see how this thread over at MAD plays out.

Billy Graham thread at MAD

One of the opening post questions is how does Graham's obituary compare to Monson's?


:lol: :lol: :lol:


Mormons are so insecure. And should be. :lol:

Re: Billy Graham

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:35 pm
by _MeDotOrg
I can remember seeing several televised Billy Graham crusades while I was growing up. I can't say he ever made a profound impression on me. I'm not sure that Billy Graham is known for any particular religious doctrine, although he was caught on tape telling Richard Nixon about the Jews and the Media: "'This stranglehold has got to be broken or this country's going down the drain.''

As a religious figure, Graham was not particularly transcendent. He lent a little lip-service to Civil Rights, but he was pretty careful not to alienate himself from whites who sensibilities might be upset by Dr. King and his ilk. I think Graham was more about his role as a powerful religious leader than he was concerned, for example, with becoming a moral leader against segregation.

He was undeniably a great evangelical figure in the history of this country, not as extreme as Charles Coughlin, Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson. But he laid out the path for the modern television evangelist.

Re: Billy Graham

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:44 pm
by _Maksutov
I tend to agree with this.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... de-history

When Billy Graham stands before the judgement seat of God, he may finally realize how badly he failed his country, and perhaps his God. On civil rights and the environmental crisis, the most important issues of his lifetime, he championed the wrong policies.

Graham was on the wrong side of history.

The world’s most famous evangelist let his apocalyptic anticipation of the coming kingdom of God blind him to the realities of living in this world.

For Graham, the Bible had a clear message for Christians living in what he believed were humans’ last days on earth. Individuals alone can achieve salvation; governments cannot. Conversions change behaviors; federal policies do not.

These convictions shaped the evangelist’s views on civil rights.

In the late 1950s, Graham integrated his revivals and seemed to support the burgeoning civil rights movement. This is the Graham most Americans remember.

But as the movement grew, expanded and became increasingly confrontational, the evangelist’s position changed.

Once leaders like Martin Luther King Jr began practicing civil disobedience and asking for the federal government to guarantee African Americans’ rights, Graham’s support evaporated.

Within days of the publication of King’s famous 1963 Letter from a Birmingham Jail, Graham told reporters that the Baptist minister should “put the brakes on a little bit”.

He criticized civil rights activists for focusing on changing laws rather than hearts.

In 1971, Graham published The Jesus Generation, a book on the coming apocalypse. Looking for signs of Jesus’s second coming had become an obsession of Graham’s, as it was for millions of other evangelicals in the mid-20th century.

In the book Graham praised the wisdom of young people who rejected the federal government as a tool for rectifying injustices.

Graham had the opportunity to lead fundamentalists into a new era, but he squandered it
“These young people don’t put much stock in the old slogans of the New Deal, the Fair Deal, the New Frontier and the Great Society,” he said. “They believe that utopia will arrive only when Jesus returns. Thus these young people are on sound Biblical ground.”

For six decades Graham taught Americans that the federal government could not be an instrument of God to bring about justice, not on race matters and not on other significant issues. Although he believed in racial equality, his theology blinded him to what we now know was the best means for achieving that equality.

More recently, the evangelist denied the threat of global warming as well as federal efforts to stymie it.

In a 1992 book focused on the signs that the world was nearing its end, the preacher suggested that if humankind was going to survive, businesses needed to reduce pollution and stop contributing to global warming.

In a revised, 2010 version of the book, Graham eliminated the phrase “global warming” from the text altogether. Global warming no longer existed in the mind of Graham as a real threat.

He went on to assure readers that the earth will not “be saved through legislation.” The federal government, he indicated, had no business passing laws to protect the earth for future generations.

Graham’s positions on civil rights and the environment are not those of a right-wing crank, or of a paranoid anti-intellectual. Graham takes his Bible and his theology seriously. The political positions he has embraced derive from a careful and serious study of the scriptures.

Graham came of age during Franklin Roosevelt’s massive expansion of government power. But rather than join with social gospel advocates like Roosevelt aide Harry Hopkins in promoting the creation of a welfare state to serve the needy, the future evangelist was more influenced by apocalypse-obsessed, fundamentalist rabble rousers who rejected New Deal liberalism.

Graham, like most fundamentalists of his generation, determined that the New Deal state represented godless competition for the churches rather than a potential ally.

This is a message that appeared again and again in Graham’s many books on Jesus’s second coming. Only the return of Jesus will right social wrongs, he concluded.

The expansion of state power, in contrast, was a necessary precursor to the rise of the Antichrist. The evangelist felt sure that as we approach the end of time, the world’s governments were going to take away Christians’ rights and liberties.

The New Deal with its intrusive regulations was the first step, Obamacare with its contraception mandates the most recent.

Yet Graham insisted that the inevitability of the second coming was no justification for indifference. “We must not feel that we are to sit back and do nothing to fight evil just because some day the four horsemen will come with full and final force upon the earth,” Graham wrote. Instead, he prodded evangelicals to elect people to office who shared his anti-statist worldview.

They did. White evangelicals played an outsized role in recent political campaigns, supporting every Republican presidential candidate from Ronald Reagan to Donald Trump.

Graham had the opportunity to lead fundamentalists into a new era. He could have pushed them to take social reform seriously as a God-given mandate to save the world from environmental destruction. He could have tackled racism, America’s original sin, by championing the federal government’s aggressive civil rights policies.

But he squandered it. He could not overcome the speculative end-times schemes of his cohort of evangelicals, with their anti-government hostilities.

Graham had good intentions, as his work desegregating his crusades demonstrated. But when his influence really would have counted, when he could have effected real change, real social transformation, he was too locked into last-days fearmongering to recognize the potential of the state to do good. We are all paying the price.

A different kind of last days may soon be upon us. Racial tensions are rising, the earth is warming, and evangelicals are doing little to help. That may be Graham’s most significant, and saddest, legacy.

Re: Billy Graham

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:15 pm
by _huckelberry
Maksutov, your link above has good information. It also points to further background information I was less aware of

https://www.alternet.org/belief/how-cor ... an-america

I rather doubt that the 30s and 40s are the beginning beginning of this political religious alliance but for the present it would a significant part.

Re: Billy Graham

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:38 pm
by _Maksutov
huckelberry wrote:Maksutov, your link above has good information. It also points to further background information I was less aware of

https://www.alternet.org/belief/how-cor ... an-america

I rather doubt that the 30s and 40s are the beginning beginning of this political religious alliance but for the present it would a significant part.

I'll have to look into that book. Thanks for the reference.

Re: Billy Graham

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:31 pm
by _Jersey Girl
Well, in response to the OP I would say that the Rev. Billy Graham was part of the fabric of my growing up years. I recall going to youth rallies that were very much reflective of his style of preaching and as I type that, I realize that his style changed over the years so I need to qualify that this was somewhere between his fire and brimstone revival tent preaching and during the height of his Crusades but don't hold me to the time frame.

We used to watch his Crusades on television. Of course, the preaching, the altar call (there really wasn't an altar in the way that I think of an altar) response en masse during the singing of "Just as I am" was impressive and heart warming. The music, the singing by George Beverly Shea, all of that was very familiar to me.

Billy Graham always reminded me of the Apostle Paul. If there is such a thing as "a type of Christ", then Graham represents a "type of Paul" in my eyes. The same kind of Christian on fire for Jesus as Paul was, who took his "mission" to the world and who would dedicate his life time to it.

Not many folks live that level of commitment and I admire it. Just like all of us and Paul, he was a product of his times. I may not agree with his politics, but I do admire the dedicated preacher who preached directly from the Bible. That itself is rare these days.

Re: Billy Graham

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:42 pm
by _aussieguy55
I remember when I was boarding at a Lutheran High School we were taken to one of his meetings in Brisbane. It was huge and many people went up front. I wondered for years how effective this type of mass evangelism was. Some research done years ago in glasgow , Scotland where 52,253 made decisions for Christ only 3802 joined a church. It was also found that many of those were already members of churches.Other research found only small numbers remained active as Christians. Some scholars in this area have suggested friendship and small groups ministry has been more effective. His preaching on hell is now being debated even among Evangelical scholars. What would he have believed about thos slaves who died on the boats on the way to the US and bodies thrown into the sea.

Re: Billy Graham

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:21 pm
by _Bach
I've got to go along and support Maskutwo here. The Reverend Graham never had the following nor impact as the Revered Hillary and, if he could have only filled stadiums and countryside’s like the Revered had done so recently - I might be persuaded he had a greater impact on the souls of this earth than the Reverd One.

https://billygrahamlibrary.org/when-and ... t-crusade/

Fortunately I know that Revered one wil go out of her way and promote, from within her prestigious rolodex, attendance to the Reverend Graham funeral to ensure the significance of size and morality to a crowd he could never achieve with out the help of the Revered One.

No doubt Maskutwo, the Reverend will never leave the lasting impression as one like the Revered.