Page 1 of 4
What the media isn't reporting about the tragedy in Parkland
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:32 am
by _DoubtingThomas
When I read a popular comment (with many likes) I decided to investigate it myself, and it is true
“Someone could have approached a faculty member, a guidance counselor, a teacher and said, ‘This kid gets bullied a lot, someone should do something,’ ” said student Manolo Alvarez, 17, who had history class with Cruz. “I regret definitely not saying anything.”
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 54714.htmlThe comment
Robert 2 hr ago
It is likely that this young man and his brother both suffered from brain damage because of their mothers alcohol and drug use when they were in utero. They likely have FAS (fetal alcohol syndrome) or a variation of it. Kids with this disorder often are not able to regulation their emotions and often act like kids with autism. They have sensory problems, never feel comfortable in their own skin, can be very reactive and can be explosive. They often have other developmental delays and lower IQs.They are also often bullied by peers and suffer physical abuse by bio-parents. I work with these kids, if they get help when they are young, most are able to learn to regulate themselves and act in a socially acceptable manner. It is criminal that Florida social services from the adoption services the parents used, to child protection, to the schools, to local law enforcement, did not attempt to help this young man when he was a child. Instead they create a ticking time bomb... and he is not the only one. Add guns into this mix and you get what we got.
Re: What the media isn't reporting about the tragedy in Park
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:36 am
by _DoubtingThomas
and I am tired Republiconts keep blaming "evil". There is no such thing as good and evil, we are all victims because there is no such thing as free will. The real enemy is nature. Science is our only hope.
Re: What the media isn't reporting about the tragedy in Park
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:54 am
by _Some Schmo
DoubtingThomas wrote:and I am tired Republiconts keep blaming "evil". There is no such thing as good and evil, we are all victims because there is no such thing as free will. The real enemy is nature. Science is our only hope.
In essence, I agree with this (but I'm wary of the word "victims" in this context).
Re: What the media isn't reporting about the tragedy in Park
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:52 pm
by _Bach
Probably need to ban alcohol. No, too many liberals have interests in those Napa/Sonoma wineries so that won’t work with the media.
Let’s see - maybe we should just ban childen to prevent bullying? No wait, let’s just ban parents and get to the root cause of it all. Upon further consideration - that won’t work either: too much media resistance from LGBT’s starting a family with the ACLU.
I’VE GOT IT - FINALLY A FOOL PROOF WAY TO PREVENT THE RECURRENCE OF PARKLAND, COLUMBINE,SANDY HOOK ET AL:
LETS JUST BAN SCHOOLS!
We’re obviously doing our best to attempt a ban on thinking with this OP.
Re: What the media isn't reporting about the tragedy in Park
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:34 pm
by _huckelberry
DoubtingThomas wrote:and I am tired Republiconts keep blaming "evil". There is no such thing as good and evil, we are all victims because there is no such thing as free will. The real enemy is nature. Science is our only hope.
Hmm, is not bullying and indifference to a victim of bullying evil?. I and a lot of others think that is the sort of thing which is meant when the word evil is used. I am unsure how science prevents that sort of human activity. Perhaps you can call it reprograming people if you wish but I suspect it would consist significantly of teaching and sharing better behavior. That is what people normally use the word good for.
I do not think science is closer to a solution of this particular problem than the old fashioned idea of distinguishing good from evil and rejecting the evil and actually doing the good.
Re: What the media isn't reporting about the tragedy in Park
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:03 pm
by _subgenius
DoubtingThomas wrote:and I am tired Republiconts keep blaming "evil". There is no such thing as good and evil, we are all victims because there is no such thing as free will. The real enemy is nature. Science is our only hope.
And thanks to science we have guns....science is awesome!
Re: What the media isn't reporting about the tragedy in Park
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:17 pm
by _honorentheos
huckelberry wrote:DoubtingThomas wrote:and I am tired Republiconts keep blaming "evil". There is no such thing as good and evil, we are all victims because there is no such thing as free will. The real enemy is nature. Science is our only hope.
Hmm, is not bullying and indifference to a victim of bullying evil?. I and a lot of others think that is the sort of thing which is meant when the word evil is used. I am unsure how science prevents that sort of human activity. Perhaps you can call it reprograming people if you wish but I suspect it would consist significantly of teaching and sharing better behavior. That is what people normally use the word good for.
I do not think science is closer to a solution of this particular problem than the old fashioned idea of distinguishing good from evil and rejecting the evil and actually doing the good.
There is probably a temptation for the young newly-minted atheist or agnostic to dismiss notions of good or evil outright because they can see that the idea of sin is a construct that has been manipulated as a tool of power. But ethics still engages the question of good compared to it's opposite for which evil seems an appropriate term.
As to whether or not science has anything to say about influencing ethical outcomes, I think it does but it's easy to get careless by ascribing to science the godlike power of omnipotence and inevitable omniscience to which humankind can ascend. But who as a youth was adequately convinced of the fallibility of their own position?
Re: What the media isn't reporting about the tragedy in Park
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:48 pm
by _DoubtingThomas
huckelberry wrote:Hmm, is not bullying and indifference to a victim of bullying evil?. I and a lot of others think that is the sort of thing which is meant when the word evil is used.
Well it depends, how do you define evil? If by "evil" you mean "it is harmful" then the answer is yes. Are tornadoes or deadly viruses evil? Using the harmful definition then we can say tornadoes and deadly viruses are evil.
However, there is no objective morality in the Universe. As Richard Dawkins said, " The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference"
huckelberry wrote: I am unsure how science prevents that sort of human activity. Perhaps you can call it reprograming people if you wish but I suspect it would consist significantly of teaching and sharing better behavior.
1. Better medicine to fight mental disorders. 2. Gene Editing on Human Embryos 3. Artificial Intelligence to better diagnose mental disorders 4. I have other ideas that I am not willing to share here because I might make money out of them. 5. As you said reprogramming people, we just don't know the limits of science.
honorentheos wrote:
There is probably a temptation for the young newly-minted atheist or agnostic to dismiss notions of good or evil outright because they can see that the idea of sin is a construct that has been manipulated as a tool of power. But ethics still engages the question of good compared to it's opposite for which evil seems an appropriate term.
Sure, we can do ethics (think rationally) to progress. However, Ethics (philosophy) have convinced many that there is no objective morality.
Re: What the media isn't reporting about the tragedy in Park
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:22 pm
by _huckelberry
DoubtingThomas wrote:huckelberry wrote:Hmm, is not bullying and indifference to a victim of bullying evil?. I and a lot of others think that is the sort of thing which is meant when the word evil is used.
However, there is no objective morality in the Universe. As Richard Dawkins said, " The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference"
If Dawkins was more precise he would notice that rocks or the ocean present pitiless indifference, humans unless profoundly defective do not.
Now I certainly want science to be able to accomplish as much understanding to help as it can.
But it should be remembered that Science itself does absolutely nothing. It is the choices that humans make to create and use science which can do things.
Well those human choices can also use science to harm. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, nurse Ratchet might not be the best solution to mental health problems.
Or perhaps artificial intelligence, "this human is defective, off with his head."
welcome to the pitiless universe.
Re: What the media isn't reporting about the tragedy in Park
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:39 pm
by _honorentheos
DoubtingThomas wrote:huckelberry wrote:Hmm, is not bullying and indifference to a victim of bullying evil?. I and a lot of others think that is the sort of thing which is meant when the word evil is used.
Well it depends, how do you define evil? If by "evil" you mean "it is harmful" then the answer is yes. Are tornadoes or deadly viruses evil? Using the harmful definition then we can say tornadoes and deadly viruses are evil.
However, there is no objective morality in the Universe. As Richard Dawkins said, " The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference"
huckelberry wrote: I am unsure how science prevents that sort of human activity. Perhaps you can call it reprograming people if you wish but I suspect it would consist significantly of teaching and sharing better behavior.
1. Better medicine to fight mental disorders. 2. Gene Editing on Human Embryos 3. Artificial Intelligence to better diagnose mental disorders 4. I have other ideas that I am not willing to share here because I might make money out of them. 5. As you said reprogramming people, we just don't know the limits of science.
honorentheos wrote:
There is probably a temptation for the young newly-minted atheist or agnostic to dismiss notions of good or evil outright because they can see that the idea of sin is a construct that has been manipulated as a tool of power. But ethics still engages the question of good compared to it's opposite for which evil seems an appropriate term.
Sure, we can do ethics (think rationally) to progress. However, Ethics (philosophy) have convinced many that there is no objective morality.
Dude, just don't.