The Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act

[_subgenius]

"By denying me my right to purchase a firearm that day, they violated the Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act," he added.

The Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act prohibits discriminatory practices, policies and customs on the basis of religion, age, race, national origin, sex, height, weight and other factors.

Fulton tried to buy the shotgun [at Dick's] in Troy.

http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/stor ... 406939002/

So if a bakery has to sell a cake to gay couple then does Dick's have to sell guns to 18 year olds?

[_canpakes]

I wonder why he didn't sue anyone last year for not being allowed to vote. Wouldn't his ironclad reasoning have ensured him a legal victory?

[_Res Ipsa]

I wonder why he didn't sue anyone last year for not being allowed to vote. Wouldn't his ironclad reasoning have ensured him a legal victory?

I took a look and think he has a good case. Michigan has a very broad civil rights act that prohibits age discrimination in public accommodations, which includes retail stores, unless permitted by law. The age for voting is determined by law, so it falls within the exception. The minimum age for purchase of long guns under federal law is 18, and Michigan law appears to track state law. So, unless there is some statute that, say, permits retailers to place age limits on dangerous items or the like, the young man has a right to buy a long gun. That would change if either the state law or federal law were changed to prohibit all gun sales to people under 21.

[_canpakes]

I wonder why he didn't sue anyone last year for not being allowed to vote. Wouldn't his ironclad reasoning have ensured him a legal victory?

I took a look and think he has a good case. Michigan has a very broad civil rights act that prohibits age discrimination in public accommodations, which includes retail stores, unless permitted by law. The age for voting is determined by law, so it falls within the exception. The minimum age for purchase of long guns under federal law is 18, and Michigan law appears to track state law. So, unless there is some statute that, say, permits retailers to place age limits on dangerous items or the like, the young man has a right to buy a long gun. That would change if either the state law or federal law were changed to prohibit all gun sales to people under 21.

This is understandable. Still, firearms dealers have some discretion in the purchase even if claimed to be based merely on a bad 'gut feeling', correct? Not sure that this would apply in the situation above because not allowing the sale based purely on age seems more arbitrary, but I wonder if Dicks would use this as part of a defense. How should a lawyer dismantle a claimed 'bad feeling' about 18-year-olds owning guns, in general? : )

[_subgenius]

Still, firearms dealers have some discretion in the purchase even if claimed to be based merely on a bad 'gut feeling', correct?

Some bakeries have "gut feelings" that justify their discretion in the sale of wedding cake for a gay marriage, correct?

[_moksha]

Michigan law is pretty explicit:

If the handgun is to be purchased from a federally licensed dealer, the applicant must be age 21 or older. However, if purchased from some guy straight from the back of his car trunk, then only a valid high school ID is required.

[_Res Ipsa]

This is understandable. Still, firearms dealers have some discretion in the purchase even if claimed to be based merely on a bad 'gut feeling', correct? Not sure that this would apply in the situation above because not allowing the sale based purely on age seems more arbitrary, but I wonder if Dicks would use this as part of a defense. How should a lawyer dismantle a claimed 'bad feeling' about 18-year-olds owning guns, in general? : )

So, absent any legal or constitutional provision to the contrary, a seller has the discretion to determine who he will sell to. He can rely on his gut, the alignment of stars, throwing percentile dice, or clothing styles. But, when a civil rights law is passed, he cannot use his discretion to exclude a protected class. So, even if he offered “gut feeling” as a justification, he could not rely on gut feeling to exclude all 18 year olds.

The classic way to test for civil rights legislation violations is to send testers to the alleged violator. That’s been used in cases of housing and employment discrimination cases for decades. The law generally provides a shifting burden of proof in this type of case. Initially, the plaintiff simply has to show he was refused service and is a member of a protected class. (Not too hard in an age driscrimination case). The burden then shifts to the defendant to prove a non-discriminatory basis for the action. In the gun case, the seller could assert “Just had a bad feeling about him.” Finally, the burden shifts back to the plaintiff to prove that the reason being offered is a pretext. In the gun case, plaintiff could offer evidence based on testing to show that the seller had the bad feeling about all 18 year olds.

The case the young man filed is simpler, because the seller announced the basis for the refusal to sell: age, which is a violation of the state’s civil rights law.

[_DoubtingThomas]

So if a bakery has to sell a cake to gay couple then does Dick's have to sell guns to 18 year olds?

I think the legal age to buy a gun should be at 25. According to Rochester's Health Encyclopedia "The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so. In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part."

[_canpakes]

Still, firearms dealers have some discretion in the purchase even if claimed to be based merely on a bad 'gut feeling', correct?

Some bakeries have "gut feelings" that justify their discretion in the sale of wedding cake for a gay marriage, correct?

I suppose that some do. : D ... But this is actually a 'thing' in the world of firearms sales, and I suspect that these particular episodes of gut feeling are allowed a bit more leeway in refusing a sale than when they concern the sale of baked goods.

[_Paracelsus]

Guns, guns, guns again !

Endemism...

Endemism is the ecological state of a species being unique to a defined geographic location, such as an island, nation, country or other defined zone, or habitat type; organisms that are indigenous to a place are not endemic to it if they are also found elsewhere. The extreme opposite of endemism is cosmopolitan distribution. An alternative term for a species that is endemic is precinctive, which applies to species (and subspecific categories) that are restricted to a defined geographical area.

An exact definition.

by the way
Does count if legal age to own/buy a gun is 18, 21 or 25?
Old guys, with varicose legs behave as toddlers, when it is about guns/freedom, guns/constitution.

other by the way
Toddlers shot their siblings and neighbours with the mother's gun.
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