On a roll, so I may as well keep going.

[_Markk]

In my drives through LA, you always see them (the city) cleaning and sanitizing the the different blocks...they seem to have a schedule. In my videos yo can see these trucks and closers.

My first, and up to this point only, thought on this was that they just need to clean up the mess, and sanitize. I read this article and it sunk in deeper how important this really is.

It may take a major outbreak of a disease to "normal" citizens to bring more attention to the severity of the current problem.

This is in San Diego...

Since September, crews working for the city have hauled out more than 100 tons of garbage and debris from the riverbed. The effort is part of a larger effort to sanitize areas frequented by homeless and drug users, who have been blamed for spreading a massive hepatitis A outbreak that hospitalized at least 396 people and killed 20, according to county health officials.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/new ... story.html

[_Gadianton]

Markk,

The LA Times articles you linked to say that the spike in homelessness is caused by a strong economy that has pushed rents up too high for the lowest rung of poor to pay. Do you a) agree or b) disagree with the LA Times article you cited?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Gee, I made the observation on a couple threads now that limited geography, combined with a crap load of people, combined with a strong economy driving up housing, combined with flooding the labor market with cheap labor has factored strongly in the increase of homeless in SoCal.

Are we back to that point, or are we sticking with drugs?

- Doc

[_Analytics]

Gee, I made the observation on a couple threads now that limited geography, combined with a crap load of people, combined with a strong economy driving up housing, combined with flooding the labor market with cheap labor has factored strongly in the increase of homeless in SoCal.

Are we back to that point, or are we sticking with drugs?

- Doc

I'm not sure if "flooding the market with cheap labor" is a factor. The article doesn't say that, does it? If I understand Markk correctly, while he generally thinks the Mexicans he hires are lazy and incompetent, he also thinks these homeless people are worse than useless--they aren't skilled carpenters who would do great work for $150 a day but are being undercut by the Mexicans Markk ends up hireing for only $100.

[_EAllusion]

I'm under the impression, also referred to in the series of articles linked by Markk, that is not just that wealth in the area is driving out affordable housing. It's also that the local government is refusing to zone certain areas where dense, affordable housing can be built, because local communities don't want poor and formerly homeless people in their back yard.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Gee, I made the observation on a couple threads now that limited geography, combined with a crap load of people, combined with a strong economy driving up housing, combined with flooding the labor market with cheap labor has factored strongly in the increase of homeless in SoCal.

Are we back to that point, or are we sticking with drugs?

- Doc

I'm not sure if "flooding the market with cheap labor" is a factor. The article doesn't say that, does it? If I understand Markk correctly, while he generally thinks the Mexicans he hires are lazy and incompetent, he also thinks these homeless people are worse than useless--they aren't skilled carpenters who would do great work for $150 a day but are being undercut by the Mexicans Markk ends up hireing for only $100.

Let's just pretend for a moment if you were to removed the undocumented immigrants from the picture as outlined by this group:

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil. ... california

Wouldn't that have eased the pressure on the real estate market? When you have no room to realistically grow, you must build upward, or real estate becomes virtually unattainable for most. When you inject millions of people into an already developed area prices are going to skyrocket.

I don't know why people are so scared of looking at real market factors. Everyone is terrified of being called a racist when the fact of the matter is everywhere in CA once you hit critical mass with a city the rents and purchase prices for homes and apartments blow up. Allowing an inflow of cheap labor, relatively uneducated and unacculturated people, into a metroplex is going to cause issues and they're going to have a hard time adapting.

As I've stated before you have multiple factors that if you talk honestly about them you're just going to offend someone on either side of the spectrum. In one of the links I read LA county passed a $4.7 billion bond to build affordable housing and increase homeless services. We'll see if they can't turn it around down there.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

When you have no room to realistically grow, you must build upward, or real estate becomes virtually unattainable for most.

1) The article series Markk referred to by the LA times does not argue there is no room to realistically grow. It argues the opposite. All the videos Markk is linking certainly show a lot of blank spaces where stuff could be built.

2) When new, fancy high-rise buildings are built, rich people tend to flock to those and drive down the cost of living in the older ones. This puts downward pressure all the way down the housing chain and makes homes more affordable on the low end. If, on the other hand, the wealthy are simply crowding out the existence of affordable housing because there's have so much resources to eat up the real estate, that's a different kind of problem.

[_Markk]

Markk,

The LA Times articles you linked to say that the spike in homelessness is caused by a strong economy that has pushed rents up too high for the lowest rung of poor to pay. Do you a) agree or b) disagree with the LA Times article you cited?

I disagree and agree.

There are different types of homeless people. The types that are saturated and who you generally see on the streets are mentally ill, drug burn outs, and drug addicts. Most are there becasue they cannot hold a job. Many of these are just bad people Glad...thieves.

The ones that can work and are homeless, they are the ones that the system can help.

When I was doing street ministry in San Bernardino...of the people we helped feed and cloth, a small percentage, I would guess maybe 10-20 %...had the wits and potential to be productive citizens, and this is San Bernardino where cheap rent is available.

Politicians down play the problem...an paint a picture that is just not as bad as it is. The issue we are no facing is to the point that it is impossible to hide, but until you see it, or in Karl's life lived it, you can not understand how bad it really is.

I shared a story here how a homeless guy broke into one of our project and fell to his death...not a word about in any paper or news cast. Like Karl wrote, people on the streets might get there heads smashed with a rock sleeping on the side walk. You don't here about those stories becasue it is bad press.

There are homeless in places like Venice Beach and more on the West side that have chosen a life in motor homes and cars becasue the rent is high, but there is cheap rent and jobs 50-60 miles away if they really want to change their life style.

One thing that blows my mind is that when you go through these homeless camps and areas...it is like looking at kids in a high school quad...many are sitting around looking at cell phones. The homeless guy that died on my job, had a broken cell phone next to him he was probable using for a light.

One can not pay high rent and have cell phone and buy drugs, smoke and drink...something has to give and people have to make the choice.

When I was working with the homeless, I had a friend who was a part time pastor and successful business man, and what he did is offer financial planning for folks...he would set up a budget for them and tell them the things they need to do to get out of the hole...few would follow up with him. Those that did, had a better chance to get out, and the biggest reason why is that they wanted too. many say they want out, but won't do what it takes to get out...others, and those are what is a every growing issue...just do not have the tools, and drugs are a major reason they do not inmost the case...even much of the mental illness can be traced back to drugs.

There is a Christian Ministry here in So Ca called Set Free. They deal with hard core street addiction. Basically the first thing is you have to want to help yourself...if not then they are not allowed in the program...then they step up through different levels of "freedoms," at different homes throughout their system. It is tough love, if you screw up, few chances are given. But it is fairly successful. These folks may never live the lives that you and I have...but they are productive, and drug and alcohol free, and off the streets. It is not for every one, but it is for some. I work with them indirectly (my mother in law donated some property and rent out a home to them at very low rent for the past 20 years, I help maintain the property). The pastor rides a Harley, and is a full blown biker, and don't take no crap.

Sorry to Ramble, Happy St Patty day

[_Markk]

Gee, I made the observation on a couple threads now that limited geography, combined with a ____ load of people, combined with a strong economy driving up housing, combined with flooding the labor market with cheap labor has factored strongly in the increase of homeless in SoCal.

Are we back to that point, or are we sticking with drugs?

- Doc

I'm not sure if "flooding the market with cheap labor" is a factor. The article doesn't say that, does it? If I understand Markk correctly, while he generally thinks the Mexicans he hires are lazy and incompetent, he also thinks these homeless people are worse than useless--they aren't skilled carpenters who would do great work for $150 a day but are being undercut by the Mexicans Markk ends up hireing for only $100.

You are a liar...I never said generally they are lazy and incompetent. I said there are lazy ones and very good ones "just like anyone else." I said many are not that skilled, and some are. I said I have good friends that are illegal, and associate with them. You are being deceptive and only looking for what you want to hear in what I write.

This again shows you need to see what I am talking about, you need to witness it. Most homeless people on the streets are homeless is becasue they do not want to work..or don't have the tools are capability to work...or are thieves, cons, and drug addicts. That is the way it is on the streets, I can't help that is the way it is.

[_MeDotOrg]

So how are we to think of the homeless? As vermin, who must be exterminated before an outbreak of disease threatens the rest of society? Should they be quarantined? Do we say the homeless are them and we are us?

You can read statistics about how much garbage is collected, conveniently forgetting that the non-homeless world has garbage pickup.

I think one of the problems is that we take videos of homeless, we read statistics about garbage pickup, and we look at the macro without looking at the micro. Each homeless person is a human being, that for whatever reason, has fallen from the ability to house themselves. Drugs, mental illness, the unequal distribution of wealth in our economy, they all are contributing factors. It is a big problem, and a complicated one. I think one of the most important thing we can do as a society is to help those who are in danger of being homeless. Once you ARE homeless, the road back is a lot tougher.

One idea that is beginning to take hold is universal basic income. In the next 20 years, millions of jobs will be lost due to automation. We are at a point where our economy may not provide jobs for everyone, and we are going to have to deal with that.