What happens if the Mueller investigation is stopped?

[_MeDotOrg]

In my mind, the 'get-out-in-the-street-and-protest' tripwire has always been the thwarting of the Mueller investigation, but there seem to be a couple of scenarios developing. It seems the Trump administration is gradually turning up the temperature by firing McCabe. Is it possible that this is the first step that may lead through Sessions, Rosenstein to Mueller?

First of all, lest you think I am wearing a tinfoil hat, I am not suggesting that this has happened. But given the history of the past 14 months, I definitely think it falls within the realm of real possibility. Gaming a war with North Korea is the purview of Generals. Gaming the defense of our Constitution is the purview of the citizens of this country.

Personally, I think Donald Trump's response to Russian election interference has been, to be charitable, underwhelming. I have never seen a President conscientiously ignore a threat like Trump. What I see as dereliction of duty is, however, my own judgement call. But if Mueller is fired, the country will have witnessed the total erosion of the checks and balances on the Executive Branch. If allowed to stand, it would mean the the Justice Department could be the political police department of the White House.

During Watergate, we had a Congress that worked together during the Impeachment hearings. I don't want to sound like an old geezer, but it was a different time. There was far more somber and serious discussion than there was partisan vitriol. I would hope that our current Congress will behave as nobly, but I fear that there are a lot more partisan hacks than there were in 1974. Many cannot see the difference between loyalty to party and loyalty to country.

As citizens, we are the ultimate protectors of the Constitution. I am not talking about violence. I firmly believe in non-violent resistance. But go-to-a-demonstration-on-Saturday is nowhere near enough of an appropriate expression of outrage.

Again, I think of this thread as being a forum for citizens gaming the possibility that Mueller is fired. What are your thoughts if it happens?

[_Jersey Girl]

I'm not so politically savvy as the rest of the folks here. So, if you'll tell me what it's called when a coup isn't bloody or being conducted by the military, and instead being facilitated by the President himself, I'd be happy to answer you.

I think what's going on is scary as hell.

[_EAllusion]

If that were to happen, Trump should be impeached and removed from office immediately. But we know that won't happen.

So if it is stopped today, I think the most likely outcome is Republicans in Congress go along with killing the investigation with a few breaking ranks to discuss how "troubled" they are while simultaneously materially supporting the President. I would expect some token investigation replaces it to be able to claim they are doing something. But mostly, they'd rely on their propaganda apparatus to continue to lie about what is going on and lean back in confidence knowing that'll do. This isn't just about Trump. It's about a complicit and supportive GOP.

Initially, this would be very unpopular and would cause widespread protest, but that would fade over time and probably quicker than you might think. Think Comey's firing, but worse. Eventually, the people who are irate with it would be the same people who are irate now. It wouldn't move the needle enough to be politically important.

However, the closer this happens to the election, the more likely it will boost Democratic odds of victory. Day by day, inch by inch, we're move closer to when this will have significant political consequences. If Democrats retake one of the Congressional chambers, they'll reignite the investigation and that'll be that.

While Democrats are likely to win landslide or near-landslide levels of support in November, the actual outcome of control of the House is about a coin-flip because district lines has so thoroughly gamed the system for Republicans that they win all outcomes that aren't a rare landslide. The Senate is even worse due to where the 1/3rd of seats are up for election this cycle. The worst case is that Trump has enough sense to wait out the election, Democrats win by 7% nationally, but lose the House/Senate anyway, and he has more freedom to kill the investigation without worry of political consequence.

What do citizens do? You can protest. I think you might have to protest, but I'm skeptical that produces any real change. I'd fully expect the Trump admin and right-wing media to use sporadic outbreaks of violence in the protests to discredit their cause and that working with public opinion to an extent, in fact.

The kind of coordinated political response we saw in the wake of the initial attempts to shut down the ACA, which were impressive in their sophistication, is an even better route. I also think you use that style of political activism to put pressure on any wavering GOP members to flip parties to give Democrats a majority for the good of the country. I think you have to do that too, in fact, but I'm also pessimistic that produces change. I'd think we'd just slowly watch the country slide down the slope of authoritarianism.

Doubtless the odds that Trump gets assassinated goes up if he crushes the Mueller investigation, not that I'm recommending the Sic Semper Tyrannis approach.

[_MeDotOrg]

In the event of Mueller's removal, I think the best and brightest hope would be the 2018 midterms. But I can think of actions which could exert some influence.

• A total boycott of Trump businesses. A boycott of business that patronize Trump business.
• Active and continuous protests at the offices of Representatives who oppose looking into impeachment.
• A sit down strike surrounding Trump Tower. Shutdown Midtown Manhattan. Encourage all pedestrians in front of Trump Tower to blow whistles, 24/7.
• A one-day general strike. No impeachment hearings? In two weeks, a TWO day general strike. Rinse and repeat.

Just a smidgeon of a list, off the top of my head. My hope is to get people thinking of ways to exert influence. I'm sure people knowing the geography around Mar a Lago could start organizing some inconveniences for a certain patron.

You want a nightmare scenario? We have 3 Supreme Court Justices knock-knock-knocking on heaven's and/or retirement's door. Imagine how much damage 3 Trump appointees, coupled with a compliant Justice Department now in the service of the White House, could do to voting rights and gerrymandering prior to the 2020 elections.

[_EAllusion]

Aand Trump has just gone on another Twitter rant about why the Mueller investigation is illegitimate and should not exist. If there's a betting market on Trump ending the investigation, it's probably spiking right now.

[_DoubtingThomas]

Hopefully the Mueller investigation is stopped so the democrats can play politics.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Well. I know the knee jerk reaction is for everyone who actually believes in this democracy is to freak out. You have to remember Mueller isn't a dumb man. Him getting fired doesn't make his findings go away. There are already guilty pleas, indictments, and so on that have resulted from the investigation. Also, he presumably runs a tight ship such that the only 'leaks' we see are what he chooses to show us.

We really have no idea what he has on Trump. I think he's had enough time and enough evidence to hopefully set up a 'Dead Man's Switch'. He gets fired, the dirt gets leaked, and the NY state AG files his own charges which can't be pardoned.

We'll see!

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

Well. I know the knee jerk reaction is for everyone who actually believes in this democracy is to freak out. You have to remember Mueller isn't a dumb man. Him getting fired doesn't make his findings go away. There are already guilty pleas, indictments, and so on that have resulted from the investigation. Also, he presumably runs a tight ship such that the only 'leaks' we see are what he chooses to show us.

We really have no idea what he has on Trump. I think he's had enough time and enough evidence to hopefully set up a 'Dead Man's Switch'. He gets fired, the dirt gets leaked, and the New York state AG files his own charges which can't be pardoned.

We'll see!

- Doc

I'm not convinced we'll ever know what Mueller's team knows even if the investigation goes unabated. I'm far less convinced if it is prematurely ended. The team likely still is discovering new information, so any premature ending of the investigation may keep information forever in the dark.

But really, what's most troubling is simply the president acting in a lawless fashion to subvert justice.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Well. People need to vote. It's as simple as that. The GOP and the President need to be held accountable at the polls. To quote Napolean, "Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake."

- Doc

[_Hawkeye]

Well. People need to vote. It's as simple as that. The GOP and the President need to be held accountable at the polls. To quote Napolean, "Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake."
- Doc

Gerrymandering kinda neutralizes the voting threat to the GOP's toxic agenda.

It just blows my mind how they've managed to undermine our democracy lately. They refused to confirm Obama's supreme court appointee so Trump could put a young religious nut on the bench who is likely to be there 3-4 more decades. They've gerrymandered the living crap out of congressional districts across the country to where the Democrats would probably need to get 80% of all votes in order to obtain a majority in Congress. HC beat Trump by 3 million votes because states like New York and California aren't allotted enough electoral votes, effectively making a red vote from South Dakota worth three times as much as a blue vote.