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Trump and/or Reality

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:22 am
by _MeDotOrg
The Washington Post wrote:President Trump was in West Virginia to talk about tax reform, so, naturally, he began talking about the results of the 2016 election, immigration, obstruction of justice and his idea that millions of people cast illegal votes.

The path he took to discussing voter fraud went like this. (This is not made up.)

His administration is working on a new version of NAFTA.
But Mexico was helpful on curtailing the caravan of immigrants coming up from Central America.
They have strong laws on immigration, but America has weak laws, thanks to Democrats like Sen. Joe Manchin (W.Va.).
We’ve going to get tougher laws and the wall.
One tougher law will deal with “chain migration.”

That excludes a number of other riffs, including on sanctuary cities, “liberating” towns from the dreaded MS-13, “obstruction of justice” by the mayor of Oakland, Calif., and, naturally, rape.

But this idea of chain migration was his jumping-off point. He talked about a terrorist attack in New York City in October that he blamed on the policy. Democrats like chain migration, though, he said, because they think those new immigrants are going to vote Democrat.

“They are doing it for that reason, because they aren’t going to be voting with us for the most part. A lot of them aren’t going to be voting,” he said. “A lot of times, it doesn’t matter, because in many places, like California, the same person votes many times. You probably heard about that.”

“They always like to say, ‘Oh, that’s a conspiracy theory!’ ” he continued. “Not a conspiracy theory, folks. Millions and millions of people, and it’s very hard because the state guards their records. They don’t want to see it.”

Here we have the best kind of conspiracy theory, the kind that can't be refuted. If California is indeed suppressing the information that thousands of Californians are voting multiple times, voilà! There it is! You can't prove it if it is part of the coverup. There's a coverup so massive it can't be uncovered. So if the point Trump wishes to make cannot be proven, it just shows that it's part of the coverup.

Of course in order to believe this you would have to believe that there is a massive simultaneous conspiracy between Californians casting literally millions of illegal votes, within a system of simultaneously adding millions of duplicate votes that no one can describe. The California the Secretary of State, in charge of certifying the elections, would have to be complicit as well. Because the backbone of the democratic process is one man one vote, all of these people are essentially guilty of treason against the United States. A woman in Texas was recently sentenced to 5 years in prison for voting while on probation for a felony. How long should Alex Padilla, the California Secretary of State, spend in jail?

Of course it is all smoke and mirrors. If there were an ounce of proof, this would be a job for the Justice Department. There are plenty of right wing investigative journalists, and plenty of right wing money to fund those journalists, and they would happily rip the cover off the biggest voter fraud story in history. The Koch Brothers would probably give you the State of Montana. And yet has anyone come up with a plausible (without Aluminum Foil hats) way that this could happen?

Hello, anyone? Not you, Alex Jones, but anyone else? Are you afraid that Jerry Brown is going to bump you off?

I always knew Trump would be an awful President, but two character traits have continued to astound me: The incredible, incessant need of his insatiable ego, and his willingness to destroy anything, even faith in our institutions, if it stands in the path of said ego.

Re: Trump and/or Reality

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:13 am
by _Some Schmo
MeDotOrg wrote:I always knew Trump would be an awful President, but two character traits have continued to astound me: The incredible, incessant need of his insatiable ego, and his willingness to destroy anything, even faith in our institutions, if it stands in the path of said ego.

The thing that astounds me most about his character is the number of people enamored by it. I'm not so impressed with his narcissism as I am the sort of symbiotic need of his fans to embrace him in light of it.

There is a natural mass of collective douchiness out there in the public I wasn't really aware of before his assumption of office. I surprise myself a little at how poorly I think of humanity now. People who support him are either incredibly poor judges of character or actually like his shady character.

I'd intuit, if left without inputs, that people would care more about truth, reason, and rational thought than all else. That's clearly not the case for most people. Religion, or the essential need to believe what feels good, is what will eventually kill humanity unless humanity kills that desire first. Unless humanity evolves to a culture where people are publicly shamed for expressing obvious BS, notions that fly counter to evidence and reason, I think we're screwed.

We're a long way from that when people support this president*.

Re: Trump and/or Reality

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:57 am
by _Res Ipsa
I think we’re supposed to shame people for shaming people.

Re: Trump and/or Reality

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:23 pm
by _Some Schmo
Res Ipsa wrote:I think we’re supposed to shame people for shaming people.

Who thinks that? I certainly don't. Some people deserve to be shamed. When you do something shameful, you've got it coming.

Re: Trump and/or Reality

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:33 pm
by _Res Ipsa
Some Schmo wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:I think we’re supposed to shame people for shaming people.

Who thinks that? I certainly don't. Some people deserve to be shamed. When you do something shameful, you've got it coming.


Or maybe it’s shame people for shaming people for shaming people. I get confused. :wink:

Re: Trump and/or Reality

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:40 pm
by _Some Schmo
Res Ipsa wrote:Or maybe it’s shame people for shaming people for shaming people. I get confused. :wink:

Shameful.

Seriously though, I think this is the real mechanism for social progress to occur - it becomes culturally taboo for people to engage in certain activities when the public consciousness is raised about how wrong it is. That takes people talking about it to each other. Few people would think of owning slaves today, I think largely because it's a bad look.

Our views on women, gay people/gay marriage, sexual harassment (and workplace harassment in general), smoking, the environment, and likely things I'm not thinking of off the top of my head have all changed in my lifetime. How else does that happen without an evolution in cultural conversation?

Re: Trump and/or Reality

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:49 pm
by _DoubtingThomas
Some Schmo wrote:Our views on women, gay people/gay marriage, sexual harassment (and workplace harassment in general), smoking, the environment, and likely things I'm not thinking of off the top of my head have all changed in my lifetime. How else does that happen without an evolution in cultural conversation?


There is no agreement on what sexual harassment is according to a Reuters/Ipsos national opinion poll.
"Poll: Hugs and dirty jokes - Americans differ on acceptable behavior"
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1EL147

Hopefully the US government makes a legal definition on what sexual harassment is because we need a clear line. I think today many men are afraid to flirt because sexual harassment is poorly defined. A cultural conversation isn't helping.

Re: Trump and/or Reality

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:07 pm
by _Some Schmo
DoubtingThomas wrote:There is no agreement on what sexual harassment is according to a Reuters/Ipsos national opinion poll.

I used to joke that AC/DC put out a new album every time Malcolm Young learned a new chord.

I can't imagine why your post reminded me of that.

Re: Trump and/or Reality

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:23 pm
by _DoubtingThomas
Some Schmo wrote:I used to joke that AC/DC put out a new album every time Malcolm Young learned a new chord.

I can't imagine why your post reminded me of that.


I don't know who Malcolm Young is, but your post reminded me of Malcolm in the Middle.

Re: Trump and/or Reality

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:30 pm
by _Some Schmo
DoubtingThomas wrote:
Some Schmo wrote:I used to joke that AC/DC put out a new album every time Malcolm Young learned a new chord.

I can't imagine why your post reminded me of that.


I don't know who Malcolm Young is, but your post reminded me of Malcolm in the Middle.

Now I've got The Fixx running through my head.

One thing leads to another...