DiscussMormonism.com

(I got better)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pl ... 97189f0e15

So for the benefit of those who continue to claim that the Russia investigation is a great big witch hunt with nothing to show for its efforts, let’s remind ourselves of what it has produced to date:

Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, is currently in jail awaiting trial on multiple charges relating to his relationships with a Russian oligarch close to Putin and the former leader of Ukraine, widely considered a Putin puppet.

Trump’s deputy campaign chairman, Rick Gates, pled guilty to lying to the FBI and conspiracy to defraud the United States, and is now cooperating with Mueller.

Trump’s first national security adviser, Michael Flynn, pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russian officials, and is now cooperating with Mueller.

A Trump foreign policy adviser, George Papadopoulos, pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with various Kremlin-connected figures and is now cooperating with Mueller.

Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian associate of Manafort, was indicted on obstruction of justice charges.

Richard Pinedo pled guilty to identity fraud for selling stolen identities to Russians connected to the Mueller probe.

Alex Van Der Zwaan, a Dutch banker and son-in-law of a Russian oligarch, pled guilty to lying to the FBI about his work with Manafort and Gates, and was jailed briefly and then deported.

Thirteen individuals and three companies were indicted for their participation in a Russian scheme to conduct “information warfare” during the 2016 election in order to push voters away from Clinton and toward Trump, as well as undermining trust in the electoral system more generally.

And now, eleven Russian military officials have been indicted for hacking into the email systems of the Democratic National Committee and various people connected to Hillary Clinton, including her campaign chairman, then disseminating the materials in carefully timed releases meant to maximize the political damage to Clinton. One of those 11, plus another Russian official, have also been indicted for hacking into the systems of state election agencies.

And that’s just so far. If the Mueller probe is moving toward a conclusion, it’s hard to believe there won’t be more indictments to come.

This is like arguing the church must be true because look at all the volumes of scripture Joseph Smith produced. The only notable indictment to result from Mueller's investigation is that of Manafort. Which, Mueller himself has acknowleded, has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... =hootsuite

Mueller's response was two-fold. On the issue of collusion, the special counsel, in a motion filed July 6, flatly said, "The government does not intend to present at trial evidence or argument concerning collusion with the Russian government and, accordingly does not oppose the defendant's motion in that respect."

To those Trump opponents who had hoped Mueller would unveil evidence of Trump-Russia collusion involving Manafort, it was a sharp and stunning admission: there's no collusion in the case against Manafort.

Today's announcement is a similar nothingburger. I can't wait to see the evidence, given that the indictment itself reads like a fantasy novel. A grand jury indictment against a bunch of people who aren't in the United States, who cannot defend themselves, and who perhaps aren't even real. Good stuff. Based on what? Some IP addresses in a router log? Some human intelligence claiming Russian involvement? I remember something about iron-glad proof of WMDs in Iraq too. They have twelve specific people identified and "know" that those people were directly involved. Ludicrous. And if you read the indictment, you'll see. It is ludicrous.

Putting all that aside, who gives a crap? What if Russian operatives did gain access to DNC emails and leaked them? That's not collusion. Moreover, the emails were true! DNC was burned by its own truthful corruption, like rigging primaries against Bernie, nothing else. If the Russians really did blow the whistle on these truths, give them an award! LOL! Take it a step further. What if Russia did prefer a Trump administration to a Hillary administration. Again I say, who gives a crap? We meddle in elections all over the world. You think other countries, like in Europe, didn't similarly have a preference? Every nation on the planet had a preference, and many of them funneled money and did various things, both publicly and privately, to affect the outcome. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. Again, who gives a crap? None of this is proof of Russians swinging the election, an illegitimate president, or Trump being a bought and paid for Russian spy.

You either care that Trump is a criminal scum bucket or you don’t. It’s not a matter of whether he is or not. A lot of people seem not to care. I’m not one of them.

Water Dog wrote:Today's announcement is a similar nothingburger.

Well if Washington Examiner says so... but in other news, for the first time we know there was absolute collusion between Russia and a Congressional candidate, and the Russian efforts began on the same day Trump publicly asked them to. Remember, for the past two years we keep hearing the GOP say Russia has always been involved in these kinds of cyber-battles and they do it on both sides since forever. Well, now we know they started when Trump asked them to and their intention was to get Trump elected. Nothing burger, right?

That liberal rag, National Review, on the latest Muller indictments:

"There’s no way to know if it moved enough votes in key states to swing the election, but the leaks of hacked emails dominated multiple news cycles, embarrassed key Democrats, and sowed a degree of discord within the Democratic party. Republicans, including Donald Trump, exulted in the revelations and sometimes explicitly called for more. “Russia, if you’re listening,” Trump said publicly on July 27, 2016, “I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing.”

Interestingly, it appears the Russians may indeed have been listening. “After hours” on July 27, the conspirators “for the first time” targeted “email accounts at a domain hosted by a third-party provider and used by Clinton’s personal office,” according to Friday’s indictment.

There will be much more analysis and dot-connecting in the coming days, some of it valuable and much of it specious. But for now here are two key takeaways:

1. This indictment demonstrates why it’s important that Mueller be permitted to finish his work. Our nation needs to know what happened in 2016, and Mueller — through both the social-media indictment and the hacking indictment — has provided a clearer picture of the precise details of alleged Russian election meddling than any other source. This is a valuable public service, and to the extent that he can hold the actual conspirators accountable, it’s also an act of necessary justice.....

2. It’s now becoming increasingly clear why intelligence agencies believe that Russians were trying to help Trump and hurt Clinton — the scale of the attack on the Clinton campaign, the DCCC, and the DNC was troubling. And while there are past reports that the Russians attempted to hack Republicans, this indictment outlines a comprehensive and sustained effort against the Democrats and is silent about a similar conspiracy aimed at Republicans. Perhaps more information will emerge, but the available public evidence at this point bolsters the intelligence agencies’ unanimous conclusion that Russia tried to help Trump.

3. The indictment practically screams, “More information is coming!” — including additional information about Russian communication with American citizens. For example, paragraph 43a of the indictment contains the first evidence of possible Russian collusion with an American candidate for public office — not President Trump, but an unnamed candidate for Congress:



Then there’s this disturbing detail about a transfer of information (including the personal identifying information of Democratic donors) to a “state lobbyist and online source of political news”:



Finally, there’s this partial record of communication between the newly indicted Russians and a “person who was in regular contact with senior members” of Trump’s presidential campaign:



Thus, while the indictment doesn’t establish collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, it clearly indicates that Mueller possesses evidence and information that the public hasn’t yet seen. Guesses about that additional evidence are just that, guesses, but we can make an educated presumption that there is more to come.

4. This indictment makes it even more troubling that Trump mocks, denigrates, and undermines the Mueller investigation as a “witch hunt.” We now know that there was real wrongdoing; we just don’t yet know its extent.

We don’t yet know if Trump cooperated in any way with Russian schemes. But when we learn more about the extent of Russian efforts to disrupt the 2016 election (and aid Trump), when we remember that Donald Jr. actually tried to collude, when we ponder for more than a few moments the web of financial connections between senior Trump aides such as Paul Manafort and Michael Flynn and the Kremlin or Kremlin allies, and when we know that Russians contacted Trump friends and advisers to offer “dirt” on the Clinton campaign — well, Trump’s repeated demands that the investigation end become much less understandable.

Republicans were rightly outraged when Barack Obama opined about the pending Clinton-email investigation, and we have since learned that his gratuitous and public exoneration of the then–likely Democratic nominee created a headache for the FBI. Now it’s time for Republicans to be consistent. As Mueller reveals more facts about Russian interference and indicts more individuals for troubling crimes uncovered as part of his entirely legitimate investigation, it’s time for the GOP to tell the president that the hunt needs to continue, because the witches are very real.

Dog, the Bronze Star Marine Rifle Platoon leader is going after Cadet Bone Spurs. You are totally on the wrong side of this one. If you keep whining I'm going to tell you to sit in the corner and lick your nuts like a good dog. You're the one with the nothingburger, dude. The guilty pleas are adding up. Guilty. Not alleged. Let the Magnificent Bastard do his job even if your disgusting little manboy of a president goes down. We'll all be better off.

The National Review is not a liberal rag, it's an establishment rag, which happens to give safe harbor to certain liberal #NeverTrump defectors. David French is one such person, an avowed #NeverTrump liberal. His opinions are both stupid and irrelevant.

https://thefederalist.com/2018/07/10/tr ... lectorate/

https://spectator.org/the-collapse-of-t ... ervatives/

http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=376110

Mak, as for your comments. You're wrong, buddy. Cadet Bone Spurs? Yeah, no doubt you include Mike Flynn on that, right? Don't waste my time.

There are a lot of things, most things, that I would happily sit in the corner and keep my mouth shut for. This isn't one of them. I mean, I'm happy to keep my mouth shut and enjoy the spectacle, but I know it's wrong. This is the biggest crock of crap, ever.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... oon-report

See the aforelinked articles. This is nothing more than a cold civil war between our three-party political system. The only aspect of this that is curious to me is why Trump hasn't ended the fiasco by simply firing Mueller, and/or Sessions, and/or Rosenstein. Many theories, but I'm torn between whether Trump has been convinced he needs to wait until after the mid-terms for sake of damage control or if it's the opposite and he enjoys this publicity and sees it as something that will energize the base. Maybe he's waiting for Congress to demand scalps.

An interesting situation. Half the country thinks Trump is an illegitimate president. The other half thinks a coup is in progress. Hmm.

...cold civil war.....

Somebody been listening to Alex Jones.

The only aspect of this that is curious to me is why Trump hasn't ended the fiasco by simply firing Mueller, and/or Sessions, and/or Rosenstein.

Rosenstein was appointed by Trump to serve as DAG while Sessions was appointed by Trump to serve as AG. It has been interesting to see how a lot of the Trump right-wing crazies have turned against Sessions when Sessions was the first U.S. Senator to have come out to endorsed Trump for President.

Water Dog wrote:The only notable indictment to result from Mueller's investigation is that of Manafort. Which, Mueller himself has acknowleded, has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump.

So if Manafort ran Trump's campaign, and he was instrumental in trying to change the language of the GOP platform to take a softer stance against the Russian invasion of Crimea, doesn't that connect in some way to Trump? Trump has always said he 'hires the best people'. He sure as crap didn't do due diligence on his campaign manager or national security advisor, both of whom were unregistered foreign agents. So if you don't think that the President's national security advisor being an unregistered foreign is not a 'notable' indictment, I guess you have a different definition of 'notable'.

Oh, so that effing looney Jim Jordan, the guy who doesn’t know his ass from his elbow, is filing papers of impeachment against Rosenstein? Ha! Well, there’s an argument that backfired.