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Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteria
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:28 pm
by _Ceeboo
Yeah, Trump's presser with Russian dictator Putin was terrible. In addition to looking like a buffoon (again), he undermined the credibility of American intelligence agencies. in my opinion, this was/is inexcusable for any sitting President and Americans, from all political parties, ought to be united in clear condemnation.
But..........
In addition to various reactions (many of them hysterical and way over the top in my opinion) there was one in particular that I would like to bring up - a MSNBC contributor (Watergate prosecutor, Jill Wine-Banks) who cited 911, Pearl Harbor and Kristallnacht (The unofficial beginning of the Holocaust, a night in 1938 when German Jews were beaten to death, Synagogues were burned to the ground and Jewish shops were destroyed).
Here is a quote from Jill during said interview:
“It’s just as serious to me as the Cuban Missile Crisis in terms of an attack, or the 9/11 attack. …His (Trump’s) performance today will live in infamy as much as the Pearl Harbor attack or Kristallnacht.”
Really?
There were over 2,400 Americans killed during the Pearl Harbor attack and this tragic incident paved the way for American involvement into WW 11.
Kristallnacht (one night) ended with the murder of over 90 innocent German Jews, massive property damage and the beginning of open season on Jews throughout Germany - The very origin of the Holocaust.
During the unimaginable 911 attacks, thousands of innocent American citizens were murdered.
These horrific moments in history are being equated with Trump complimenting the Russian dictator during a press conference in Helsinki?. Really!
What Trump did was inappropriate - It was odd - It was a huge blunder - It is worthy of unified condemnation from all Americans.
But - A reaction like this (vastly overstated in my opinion) is way over the top - It's hysteria! And it's very detrimental to all Americans and America.
To me, it's the political time that we are living in - very similar to members of the Trump administration and the tens of millions of American citizens who supported/voted for Trump being labeled as white supremacists, haters and even Nazis. Among other things, hysterically, wildly and irresponsibly attaching labels like Nazi to so many American citizens cheapens the Holocaust.
It's unreasonable, it's irrational and it's unbalanced hysteria.
Thoughts?
Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:14 pm
by _Chap
OK, here is a link ...
Trump’S PUTIN COMMENTS WILL ‘LIVE IN INFAMY’ LIKE PEARL HARBOR OR KRISTALLNACHT, SAYS WATERGATE PROSECUTORPresident Donald Trump’s joint press conference with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Helskini will “live in infamy like Pearl Harbor or Kristallnacht,” according to former Watergate prosecutor Jill Wine-Banks.
The MSNBC contributor made the provocative comment on Monday night, adding her voice to numerous lawmakers’—both Democrat and Republican—who have slammed the president over his press conference comments on the Russia probe that appeared to side with Russia over the U.S.
Asked by stand-in host Ali Velshi about how people could make sense of Trump’s comments in the context of the Watergate investigation, during which “nobody thought that Richard Nixon was working on behalf of an enemy” of the U.S., Wine-Banks said, “You can’t make sense of it.”
“It’s very hard to possibly analyze. And you’re quite correct. The burglars were Americans. They worked for the White House. They worked for the committee to re-elect the president. They weren’t foreign agents. And yet, we were burglarized this time by foreign agents,” Wine-Banks told Velshi.
“And it’s just as serious to me as the Cuban Missile Crisis in terms of an attack or the 9/11 attack. The president is taking the side of the people who attacked us instead of trying to prevent a future attack. He has done nothing to make sure that the elections four months away are going to be safe,” she added. “And I would say that his performance today will live in infamy as much as the Pearl Harbor attack or Kristallnacht. And it’s really a serious issue we need to deal with.”
Trump’s comments at the press conference and afterward appeared to back the Russian leader’s denial of election meddling—despite the U.S. intelligence community telling Trump that Russia attempted to influence the outcome of the 2016 presidential election.
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“I have President Putin. He just said it’s not Russia,” Trump told reporters following his press conference with Putin.
“I will say this: I don’t see any reason why it would be…. I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today,” he added, in comments that have prompted a backlash from a number of lawmakers and pundits.
Among the Republicans to publicly criticize the president were House Speaker Paul Ryan, retiring Arizona Senator Jeff Flake, and Arizona Senator John McCain, who called Trump’s comments “one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory," NBC News reported.
Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:58 pm
by _Chap
Wine-Banks' comments do seem to me to be 'over the top' in some respects.
She was however quite right to insist on the grave nature of the recent events to which she refers. The risks posed to the US by Russian cyber-attacks, and by the President's jaw-dropping public refusal to accept what his own intelligence community told him in favour of accepting Putin's word to the contrary, are far, far more serious than some silly exaggeration by a talking head that most people have never heard of.
Before Trump's election, could anybody ever have imagined that such things could happen? The US seems to be divided between people who are (in my view rightly) appalled by what Trump has said and done, and those who simply don't see that he has done anything (really, anything) that could be open to legitimate criticism.
And Trump seem happy to dig the ditch dividing the two groups deeper and deeper, since he perceives this division as essential in holding onto his electoral base. Worse, he may be right about that.
Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:52 pm
by _Some Schmo
Given how lightly the right is taking Russia's meddling, perhaps the rhetoric is compensation.
If your kid is on the edge of a cliff and doesn't realize it, you may find yourself yelling at him louder than usual.
Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:54 pm
by _Bret Ripley
Hi buddy! Good to see you.
“We were burglarized this time by foreign agents,” said Wine-Banks, a former Watergate prosecutor, speaking of the 2016 Russian hacking campaign. “It’s just as serious to me as the Cuban Missile Crisis in terms of an attack or the 9/11 attack. The president is taking the side of the people who attacked us.”
“His performance today will live in infamy as much as the Pearl Harbor attack or Kristallnacht and it’s really a serious issue that we need to deal with,” she added.
https://www.thewrap.com/this-msnbc-contributor-cited-9-11-pearl-harbor-and-kristallnacht-to-assess-trump-putin-summit/
So, for clarity: she personally considers the seriousness of the hacking campaign to be on par with that of the Cuban Missile Crisis or 9/11, and predicted that Trump's performance with Putin will someday be regarded as infamous as Pearl Harbor or Kristallnacht.
Ceeboo wrote:Thoughts?
Mixed bag. In the context of sociopolitics (certainly not in the context of the loss of life), her comment about the seriousness of the hacking campaign may prove to be not so far off the mark. As far as the "infamy" remark goes: I guess future historians will have to have their say about that, but it seems unlikely to me. Shrug.
Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:59 pm
by _Themis
Ceeboo wrote:But - A reaction like this (vastly overstated in my opinion) is way over the top - It's hysteria! And it's very detrimental to all Americans and America.
It appears with the full quote her statement is not as vastly over the top as you thought. I doubt this person has so much influence to be detrimental to America. Now the president certainly would have that kind of influence, and you admit he did really terrible. Why would Trump keep saying he believes Putin and not his own intelligence community Ceeboo?
Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:17 pm
by _Ceeboo
Bret Ripley wrote:Hi buddy! Good to see you.
Hey Bret! Very nice to see you too. I hope all is well.
Mixed bag. In the context of sociopolitics (certainly not in the context of the loss of life), her comment about the seriousness of the hacking campaign may prove to be not so far off the mark. As far as the "infamy" remark goes: I guess future historians will have to have their say about that, but it seems unlikely to me. Shrug.
Your contribution (including separating this from loss of life and speaking on a socio-political platform alone) is more than fair and I appreciate you offering it.
Yeah - I guess future historians will have their say.........in the future.
Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:21 pm
by _Ceeboo
Themis wrote:Ceeboo wrote:But - A reaction like this (vastly overstated in my opinion) is way over the top - It's hysteria! And it's very detrimental to all Americans and America.
It appears with the full quote her statement is not as vastly over the top as you thought.
Her quote (full of partial or 1 line or 6 lines) was and is way over the top in my opinion. Disagreeing with me is totally fine. Clarity of our differing positions is what's important, in my opinion.
Why would Trump keep saying he believes Putin and not his own intelligence community Ceeboo?
I have exactly no idea why Trump does anything he does. (Why would you ask me that?)
Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:31 pm
by _Themis
Ceeboo wrote: Why would Trump keep saying he believes Putin and not his own intelligence community Ceeboo?
I have exactly no idea why Trump does anything he does. (Why would you ask me that?)
Because that is what I do when analyzing people and their motivations. May not be that important with most people, but certainly someone who wants to be leader of their country it is extremely important to ask these questions. With Trump I look at things like why would he avoid releasing his taxes to show the American people he is not up to things he shouldn't be. In most cases we are not going to have all or most of the evidence to make a choice, so we have to look at what we have and what the more reasonable motivations are. So why does Trump seem so friendly to Putin and makes a number of comments in favor of Russian foreign policy objectives?
Re: Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteri
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:35 pm
by _Kevin Graham
Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference + Ceeboo = more dismissive hand waving