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"Artificial Intelligence Helps Find New Fast Radio Bursts"

https://www.seti.org/press-release/arti ... dio-bursts

I hope A.I. finds the aliens soon.

Have you considered that you're actually part of an A.I. consciousness and this is just a simulation in which this consciousness is manifesting itself?

- Doc

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Have you considered that you're actually part of an A.I. consciousness and this is just a simulation in which this consciousness is manifesting itself?

- Doc

isn't what you're saying actually true?
Is it not the case where your created "you" so that it could "you" what is real?

DoubtingThomas wrote:I hope A.I. finds the aliens soon.

why?

subgenius wrote:

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Have you considered that you're actually part of an A.I. consciousness and this is just a simulation in which this consciousness is manifesting itself?

- Doc

isn't what you're saying actually true?
Is it not the case where your created "you" so that it could "you" what is real?

I hope you weren't trying to summon Jaden Smith on that one. Phew, I'm not sure I understand what you wrote.

That said, the idea that this is a simulation is kind of fun to think about. We could all really just be variations or program manifestations of a A.I. simulation that is running one for the sake of running one. It's turtles all the way down once you start to think about.

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:

subgenius wrote:isn't what you're saying actually true?
Is it not the case where your created "you" so that it could "you" what is real?

I hope you weren't trying to summon Jaden Smith on that one. Phew, I'm not sure I understand what you wrote.

That said, the idea that this is a simulation is kind of fun to think about. We could all really just be variations or program manifestations of a A.I. simulation that is running one for the sake of running one. It's turtles all the way down once you start to think about.

Perhaps, but my premise was that we are, ourselves, and A.I. from our own brain. If one holds the position that "consciousness" is not supernatural and is the result of a variety of complex biochemical reactions, then the necessary conclusion is that at some point the brain created a "self". And there can be little room for speculation on why the brain would do that, correct?

subgenius wrote:Perhaps, but my premise was that we are, ourselves, and A.I. from our own brain. If one holds the position that "consciousness" is not supernatural and is the result of a variety of complex biochemical reactions, then the necessary conclusion is that at some point the brain created a "self". And there can be little room for speculation on why the brain would do that, correct?

I kind of think our cosciousness is more of an avatar of what's going on with our brain, since we seem to talk about ourselves in the 3rd person, or we talk about our brains in a weird way in that our brains ARE who we are.

Are you maybe suggesting that my consciousness, or maybe yours, is just creating all of this stuff and the only thing that might be real is a sort of solipsistic me? Or you? In other words, let's say I really do exist then it's my consciousness that has created this virtual reality and everyone and everything is a sort of extended world in which I created, unknowingly, to occupy and pass the time?

That's interesting if that's the case. And if it's the case do you have any resources I could read that might flesh that notion out a bit?

- Doc

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:

subgenius wrote:Perhaps, but my premise was that we are, ourselves, and A.I. from our own brain. If one holds the position that "consciousness" is not supernatural and is the result of a variety of complex biochemical reactions, then the necessary conclusion is that at some point the brain created a "self". And there can be little room for speculation on why the brain would do that, correct?

I kind of think our cosciousness is more of an avatar of what's going on with our brain, since we seem to talk about ourselves in the 3rd person, or we talk about our brains in a weird way in that our brains ARE who we are.

Are you maybe suggesting that my consciousness, or maybe yours, is just creating all of this stuff and the only thing that might be real is a sort of solipsistic me? Or you? In other words, let's say I really do exist then it's my consciousness that has created this virtual reality and everyone and everything is a sort of extended world in which I created, unknowingly, to occupy and pass the time?

That's interesting if that's the case. And if it's the case do you have any resources I could read that might flesh that notion out a bit?

- Doc

Well, I believe there are two reasonable options as a point of departure for this subject.
1. "You" are supernatural within a natural body (eg a driver in a car).
2. "You" are natural within a natural body.

The former allows for, among other things, the existence of God and I would rather have that discussion on another thread.
The latter is more akin to a leaf on a tree. The leaf does not "choose otherwise", it will always bend towards the sun since it is bound by the laws of nature which govern biochemical reactions without exception (eg supernatural).
So, if the "you" is the product of the bio-chemical reactions of the brain, then "you"as the leaf is no more in control of; separate; or distinct from the branch or the tree.
So, the idea of "you" is at best the leaf and more likely just an illusion. This illusion being necessary to keep the brain on its course for world domination via nutrition and mobility.
So, given (2) I can see no reason to assume anything else about the "you" inasmuch as it is a product of nature.

Here's an interesting documentary that made it to my front page on Reddit:

https://youtu.be/7H6doOmS-eM?t=290

I decided to watch it and, well, it's worth thinking about in terms of a simulated reality for us. I started you out where it picks up the idea we're discussing.

- Doc

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:

subgenius wrote:Perhaps, but my premise was that we are, ourselves, and A.I. from our own brain. If one holds the position that "consciousness" is not supernatural and is the result of a variety of complex biochemical reactions, then the necessary conclusion is that at some point the brain created a "self". And there can be little room for speculation on why the brain would do that, correct?

I kind of think our cosciousness is more of an avatar of what's going on with our brain, since we seem to talk about ourselves in the 3rd person, or we talk about our brains in a weird way in that our brains ARE who we are.

Are you maybe suggesting that my consciousness, or maybe yours, is just creating all of this stuff and the only thing that might be real is a sort of solipsistic me? Or you? In other words, let's say I really do exist then it's my consciousness that has created this virtual reality and everyone and everything is a sort of extended world in which I created, unknowingly, to occupy and pass the time?

That's interesting if that's the case. And if it's the case do you have any resources I could read that might flesh that notion out a bit?

- Doc

subgenius wrote: Well, I believe there are two reasonable options as a point of departure for this subject.
1. "You" are supernatural within a natural body (eg a driver in a car).
2. "You" are natural within a natural body.

The former allows for, among other things, the existence of God and I would rather have that discussion on another thread.
The latter is more akin to a leaf on a tree. The leaf does not "choose otherwise", it will always bend towards the sun since it is bound by the laws of nature which govern biochemical reactions without exception (eg supernatural).
So, if the "you" is the product of the bio-chemical reactions of the brain, then "you"as the leaf is no more in control of; separate; or distinct from the branch or the tree.
So, the idea of "you" is at best the leaf and more likely just an illusion. This illusion being necessary to keep the brain on its course for world domination via nutrition and mobility.
So, given (2) I can see no reason to assume anything else about the "you" inasmuch as it is a product of nature.

There is a third option, that consciousness is an emergent quality that arises from material brains that is itself not material.

The first option, that of there being a homunculus of sorts that uses the material body as a tool/vehicle is widely disparaged and absolutely at odds with modern neuroscience. The neural processes that form the act of seeing, hearing, reacting to stimuli are all demonstrably seated and exist wholy inside of the material brain in ways that make their functions much more than a collector of data to be processed elsewhere. Our brains construct reality from the stimuli we receive of which our own self-awareness seems to be part of that construction. The emergent qualities of the mind out of the material brain do not eliminate the problem of free will, and I'm of the opinion that truly libertarian free will is an illusion. But that isn't the entire story as we have executive powers through consciousness that can be observed to exert back into the machine mind. Some would argue we have free won't, others that with mindfulness we can write or at least influence the code such that we aren't merely passive subjects.