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This is not a thread to debate whether Trump is worthy of impeachment. Even if you've read only the executive summary of Volume II of the Mueller report, you know he qualifies to be removed.

The question is, should House Democrats take up impeachment proceedings knowing full well the Senate will never vote 2/3's to convict?

I see both sides of this argument. I don't think it will be nearly as politically damaging to Democrats as they seem to fear, and actually think it's worse for them if they don't attempt impeachment. It is, after all, their constitutional duty, and I'm guessing a lot of Democrats were hired last November on this exact issue.

I am concerned, however, about how it will be seen as a purely partisan act by about a third of the country, and it will only make our political dichotomy worse.

So I'm flip-flopping on this issue like a fish out of water. What are the good arguments here, one way or the other?

Schmo, once again your views resonate very closely with how I feel, point for point. I could have easily expressed the same sentiments if you hadn't done it first, but not as well as you did.

ETA: One big worry I have is that given 20 more months as President, the additional damage that Trump could still do to this country might be so great as to be virtually unrecoverable from.

I think that what makes Trump so dangerous to our democracy is that his overriding purpose appears to be to eliminate or eviscerate any and all laws and regulations that in any way limit what he can or may do to augment his own personal wealth and power. He aspires to be an absolute dictator like Kim Jong Un, whose will and power may not be questioned. That he has unabashedly expressed both admiration and envy for Kim and his absolute control over his people on occasion is a strong indicator of how much Trump would like to emulate Kim if he could.

Gunnar wrote:Schmo, once again your views resonate very closely with how I feel, point for point. I could have easily expressed the same sentiments if you hadn't done it first, but not as well as you did.

ETA: One big worry I have is that given 20 more months as President, the additional damage that Trump could still do to this country might be so great as to be virtually unrecoverable from.

Ok, I will bite...what actual damage has Trump done? (hurt feelings do not apply)….and you are thinking a Trump impeachment will be different from the Clinton impeachment how exactly?
...even Pelosi isn't as ignorant as the OP.

Gunnar wrote:I think that what makes Trump so dangerous to our democracy is that his overriding purpose appears to be to eliminate or eviscerate any and all laws and regulations that in any way limit what he can or may do to augment his own personal wealth and power. He aspires to be an absolute dictator like Kim Jong Un, whose will and power may not be questioned. That he has unabashedly expressed both admiration and envy for Kim and his absolute control over his people on occasion is a strong indicator of how much Trump would like to emulate Kim if he could.

Yep.

The thing I find remarkable about that is that it's in plain sight, but the GOP base just ignores it (or doesn't recognize it for what it is).

Trump represents every single thing (and more) that Republicans accused and criticized both Obama and Hillary for, so it's become painfully obvious that GOP complaints are hollow and worthless. Republicans don't argue. They just lie.

subgenius wrote:

Gunnar wrote:Schmo, once again your views resonate very closely with how I feel, point for point. I could have easily expressed the same sentiments if you hadn't done it first, but not as well as you did.

ETA: One big worry I have is that given 20 more months as President, the additional damage that Trump could still do to this country might be so great as to be virtually unrecoverable from.

Ok, I will bite...what actual damage has Trump done? (hurt feelings do not apply)….and you are thinking a Trump impeachment will be different from the Clinton impeachment how exactly?
...even Pelosi isn't as ignorant as the OP.

Denying the reality of human caused climate change, eviscerating environmental regulations designed to protect air and water quality and safety, weakening FDA standards for food and drug safety, replacing qualified scientists heading these and other agencies with unqualified political hacks who are former lobbyists and employees of the very companies and industries that these agencies were created to regulate, appointing Betsy DeVos to head an agency she would eliminate, if it were up to her, filling the courts with political appointees loyal to Trump, rather than the rule of law, etc. etc.

Perfume on my Mind wrote:

Gunnar wrote:I think that what makes Trump so dangerous to our democracy is that his overriding purpose appears to be to eliminate or eviscerate any and all laws and regulations that in any way limit what he can or may do to augment his own personal wealth and power. He aspires to be an absolute dictator like Kim Jong Un, whose will and power may not be questioned. That he has unabashedly expressed both admiration and envy for Kim and his absolute control over his people on occasion is a strong indicator of how much Trump would like to emulate Kim if he could.

Yep.

The thing I find remarkable about that is that it's in plain sight, but the GOP base just ignores it (or doesn't recognize it for what it is).

Trump represents every single thing (and more) that Republicans accused and criticized both Obama and Hillary for, so it's become painfully obvious that GOP complaints are hollow and worthless. Republicans don't argue. They just lie.

This is so painfully obvious that it is heartbreaking! It must be obvious even to most Republican leaders. They either don't care, or are just too spineless to do anything about it!

At this point I think impeachment proceedings wouldn't end before the election was right on top of us. I think Democrats would do well to tell the American people they trust them to determine if they are for selling out the future for ratings, or join a cause that is future focused and willing to roll up it's sleeves to tackle healthcare, climate change, creating a sustainable economy, etc.

Yeah, move on to the issues. The people want the focus to be on pocketbook issues, ending the wars, etc. and not about personalities.

honorentheos wrote:At this point I think impeachment proceedings wouldn't end before the election was right on top of us. I think Democrats would do well to tell the American people they trust them to determine if they are for selling out the future for ratings, or join a cause that is future focused and willing to roll up it's sleeves to tackle healthcare, climate change, creating a sustainable economy, etc.

Good points, honor! It is easy to imagine that even if the house voted for impeachment right now, the resultant proceedings could last until the election, at which time the impeachment would become moot, should Trump lose the election. How would we limit the Damage Trump can do in the meantime? Do you think publicly censuring Trump for his abuse of power or incompetence by a majority vote of the House would do any good? The House would not need the help of the Senate to do that. Additionally, the Senate could theoretically censure Trump with a mere majority vote, rather than requiring a 2/3 majority. It would only take a few Republican Senators to make that possible. Are there enough Republican Senators sufficiently disgusted with Trump to make that possible?