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Pelosi better take some real action soon. Barr just handed the Democrats a gift: they have grounds to impeach the AG, could proceed with doing that, and delay impeaching the President. At least they'd appear to be doing their constitutional oversight.

Right now it just looks like they're stalling, afraid of political fallout. I must say, as an independent at the mercy of the strategic thinking of the Democratic Party, I'm watching them right now with exceptional disappointment. They look weaker by the day, and that will only embolden the tyrannical toddler in the White House.

Does anyone think they're handling this situation well?

Perfume on my Mind wrote:Pelosi better take some real action soon. Barr just handed the Democrats a gift: they have grounds to impeach the AG, could proceed with doing that, and delay impeaching the President. At least they'd appear to be doing their constitutional oversight.

Right now it just looks like they're stalling, afraid of political fallout. I must say, as an independent at the mercy of the strategic thinking of the Democratic Party, I'm watching them right now with exceptional disappointment. They look weaker by the day, and that will only embolden the tyrannical toddler in the White House.

Does anyone think they're handling this situation well?

Pelosie should not rush into something large which cannot be brought to a successful conclusion. If she and the Democrats do they may look both weak and foolish on top of it.

Rushing an impeachment without Republican support will of course result in no conviction and will play directly into Trump's propaganda. (despite other shortcomings he has some talent for propaganda)

Perfume on my mind, I have stated an alternative view but that does not completely erase the view you have stated.

I still believe it is far far better for Americas future to vote Trump out of office.

Ideally the Democrats would like to hold hearings that would create more groundwork for an impeachment. I understand Pelosi's reluctance. She does not want to be seen rushing to judgement.

There are several questions here: The big one, obviously, is whether Donald Trump committed an impeachable offense. I have no doubt if you asked Pelosi off the record if Trump was guilty of obstruction of justice, she would answer yes. But knowing the President is guilty will mean far more if the rest of the country is on board. Right now, Trump's approval rating among Republicans is rock solid, and the stronger the support of the President, the weaker the backbone of any GOP member who contemplates standing against him.

The future that Nancy Pelosi fears is one where Trump survives the impeachment process. Paradoxically, if the President is impeached but not convicted, it is easier for him to be re-elected. We will be hearing the phrase 'witch hunt' in the 2028 elections. And personally, the idea of 4 more years of Donald Trump is enough to give anyone pause about considering a course of action that may increase his chances of winning. The future Pelosi might be hoping for is a heavily wounded Trump in 2020: A man who has an unbreakable hold on his base, but no chance of expanding his popularity.

As to impeaching Barr, you think you're going to get the Republicans to vote against him? And if you go after Barr and fail, do you then go after Trump? That ship will have probably sailed.

And yes, all of those pragmatic considerations seem to fly in the face of what we know to be true: That Trump obstructed justice, and he should impeached for it. You can make the argument that if we don't even try to impeach, Trump has already won, because he has intimidated the Democrats away from their Constitutional responsibilities. I think that is a legitimate argument.

I think you'll see Pelosi try to put the brakes on impeachment for a few weeks. If McGahn and Mueller testify before impeachment hearings, it might help the political climate for the Democrats. If if looks like there will be no testimony forthcoming that will help tilt the scales a bit, I think Pelosi will ultimately have no choice. There will be an impeachment.

It is becoming painfully obvious that leading Republicans (especially in the Senate) are willing to cavalierly overlook virtually any misdeed or perjury, as long as it was a fellow Republican who committed it. This is frightening! Compare that with Democrats who have repeatedly shown a willingness to throw even one of their own under the bus who is clearly guilty of criminal or ethical violations--even relatively minor ones compared to the worst that Trump and his cronies have (so far) been allowed to get away with.

huckelberry wrote:Pelosie should not rush into something large which cannot be brought to a successful conclusion. If she and the Democrats do they may look both weak and foolish on top of it.

I'm not sure how they look weak if they're doing their job.

I don't consider a conviction in the Senate the "successful conclusion" (although that would be great). A successful conclusion is a scenario where the House holds hearings with the key witnesses of the Mueller investigation that let the public know what the underlying evidence is. We can't get bipartisan agreement if the public doesn't know the facts (unfiltered through the media).

There's no doubt he won't be removed from office, and I understand Democrat's political fears. The problem is that they have a job to do right now and they aren't doing it. That's the bottom line. Trump is taking an ax to the tree of American democracy and Pelsoi's handing him a chainsaw to get the job done faster. Their paralysis is not helping the situation.

Trump is taking an axe to the tree of American democracy

Ok, I'll bite. Exactly how is Trump taking an ax to the tree of American democracy?

Does Democracy necessarily mean a more porous border and more wealth redistribution through taxation even when that's contrary to what the voters chose?

Perfume on my Mind wrote:Pelosi better take some real action soon. Barr just handed the Democrats a gift: they have grounds to impeach the AG, could proceed with doing that, and delay impeaching the President. At least they'd appear to be doing their constitutional oversight.

Right now it just looks like they're stalling, afraid of political fallout. I must say, as an independent at the mercy of the strategic thinking of the Democratic Party, I'm watching them right now with exceptional disappointment. They look weaker by the day, and that will only embolden the tyrannical toddler in the White House.

Does anyone think they're handling this situation well?

Yes. What do you think an impeachment proceeding looks like? They're calling in witnesses to testify. That's the first stage of impeachment proceeding. They're just not calling it that.

Kevin Graham wrote:

Perfume on my Mind wrote:Does anyone think they're handling this situation well?

Yes. What do you think an impeachment proceeding looks like? They're calling in witnesses to testify. That's the first stage of impeachment proceeding. They're just not calling it that.

I think we're well past that. We're talking about refused lawful requests for documents (tax returns), refusing subpoenas, blocking witnesses, and Trump outright admitting he would refuse all congressional requests. They can't investigate if the White House won't comply. They are at war. It seems to me formal impeachment proceedings would get the ball rolling.

ajax18 wrote:Ok, I'll bite. Exactly how is Trump taking an ax to the tree of American democracy?

Christ, your blindness is staggering.

Do you actually read any of the posts here? I mean, it's not like nobody's talked about it. You could start here.

Perfume on my Mind wrote:

ajax18 wrote:Ok, I'll bite. Exactly how is Trump taking an ax to the tree of American democracy?

Christ, your blindness is staggering.

Do you actually read any of the posts here? I mean, it's not like nobody's talked about it. You could start here.

No seriously, what laws have been broken and where is the erosion of "democracy"?
we have literally (for those actually paying attention) seen more evidence of "democracy" wrong doing from the DNC than from Trump (see also Hillary Clinton nomination, Steele Dossier, etc)
So, forgive me if i consider "talked about" hair fires as being less than factual evidence for your claim. Hysteria just isn't as convincing to me as it is for you.