DiscussMormonism.com

It should be noted the Free Syrian Army aided by Turkish allies, having been routinely torturing Kurds to death, to included raping and then cutting the breasts off captured Kurdish women. They’ve now killed hundreds of Kurds in their new offensive. On a personal note I lost a good colleague of mine when we entered Syria to pursue and destroy ISIS networks. This particular pivot by the Administration is bewildering and doesn’t make any sense.

- Doc

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:It should be noted the Free Syrian Army aided by Turkish allies, having been routinely torturing Kurds to death, to included raping and then cutting the breasts off captured Kurdish women. They’ve now killed hundreds of Kurds in their new offensive. On a personal note I lost a good colleague of mine when we entered Syria to pursue and destroy ISIS networks. This particular pivot by the Administration is bewildering and doesn’t make any sense.

- Doc

Given that Trump wants to pull out of Syria, how should he have done it? This decision seems to be pretty rash and all of a sudden. Perhaps actually have a plan? I wonder what his generals said and if he just disregarded them. I wonder what was said between the Turkish leader and Trump and why is Trump all of a sudden threatening Turkey if they invade? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-07/trump-issues-warning-to-turkey-after-green-light-for-incursion

He should’ve stuck to the agreements that were in place, and then carefully laid out a plan that was in our allies’ best interests who’ve paid for their allegiances with blood and treasure. That’s the thing about getting into something like an Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria. Once you make and then break a promise it affects your future ability to lead.

For example, let’s say Trump made it impossible for us to stay in Japan and South Korea because he wants troops home. What would that do, to end a Pax Americana? Clearly that would guarantee China a hegemony over vast populations and resources. Our perceived short term gain would spell long-term economic, social, and political disaster.

I guess we’ll see how Russia, Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and various other players fare as American leadership and diplomacy ebbs.

- Doc

Dr. Shades wrote:Leaving aside the question of why U.S. troops were there in the first place, what was the point of telling the Kurds to disarm?

To “own the libs”.

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I guess we’ll see how Russia, Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and various other players fare as American leadership and diplomacy ebbs.

- Doc

Speaking of Iran -- one of my buds is doing another stint in east Iraq right now, and they are currently rationing food/water because their supply trucks were attacked twice. In the past when we had a modest relationship with Iran and had troops cut off from basic supplies in the east, we would turn to Iran and they would usually sell us temporary assistance until new supplies could make their way through established routes.

Since someone figured that a deal that everyone else had no problem with was "terrible," because reasons, we now have troops in a desert region who are only allowed two drinks a day right now.

But, I'm sure now that Iran essentially has a greenlight to make their way into Syria too, to get at Israel's doorstep, things are totally going to work out better with the winning, and best deals, and stuff.

Exiled wrote:

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:It should be noted the Free Syrian Army aided by Turkish allies, having been routinely torturing Kurds to death, to included raping and then cutting the breasts off captured Kurdish women. They’ve now killed hundreds of Kurds in their new offensive. On a personal note I lost a good colleague of mine when we entered Syria to pursue and destroy ISIS networks. This particular pivot by the Administration is bewildering and doesn’t make any sense.

- Doc

Given that Trump wants to pull out of Syria, how should he have done it? This decision seems to be pretty rash and all of a sudden. Perhaps actually have a plan? I wonder what his generals said and if he just disregarded them. I wonder what was said between the Turkish leader and Trump and why is Trump all of a sudden threatening Turkey if they invade? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-07/trump-issues-warning-to-turkey-after-green-light-for-incursion

As of this moment, we’re not even pulling out of the region so much as moving a few troops to green light a slaughter.

As far as Trump’s bluster is concerned, Turkey immediately ignored it and Trump immediately pivoted to defending Turkey as a trade partner. He’s already been caught several times preferring to create a trail of denialability and one cannot discount that possibility in this case.

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:He should’ve stuck to the agreements that were in place, and then carefully laid out a plan that was in our allies’ best interests who’ve paid for their allegiances with blood and treasure. That’s the thing about getting into something like an Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria. Once you make and then break a promise it affects your future ability to lead.

For example, let’s say Trump made it impossible for us to stay in Japan and South Korea because he wants troops home. What would that do, to end a Pax Americana? Clearly that would guarantee China a hegemony over vast populations and resources. Our perceived short term gain would spell long-term economic, social, and political disaster.

I guess we’ll see how Russia, Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and various other players fare as American leadership and diplomacy ebbs.

- Doc

Yup. All that stuff was covered in Elementary Statesmanship 101. But maybe that class was not taught at Wharton when Trump was there.

Rational people inside and outside the US are having to face up to the shocking fact that under the Trump presidency the US has not only given up the attempt to exercise international leadership to promote at least a minimal degree of opportunity for peaceful development and cooperation. It has even given up the attempt to act rationally in its own long-term interests.

One does not have to be a starry-eyed admirer of all aspects of US foreign policy over the last seventy or so years to conclude that the only people who have reason to feel pleased about this are, shall we say, on the whole not the nicest of human beings.

Exiled wrote:Given that Trump wants to pull out of Syria, how should he have done it? This decision seems to be pretty rash and all of a sudden. Perhaps actually have a plan? I wonder what his generals said and if he just disregarded them. I wonder what was said between the Turkish leader and Trump and why is Trump all of a sudden threatening Turkey if they invade? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-07/trump-issues-warning-to-turkey-after-green-light-for-incursion

Wasn't Trump the guy who bombed Syria shortly after his inauguration because he said he couldn't stand to hear about children suffering?

Icarus wrote:

Exiled wrote:Wasn't Trump the guy who bombed Syria shortly after his inauguration because he said he couldn't stand to hear about children suffering?

If there is anything at all to be learned about Donald J. Trump, it is that virtually the last thing he is concerned about is the suffering of innocent children!