DiscussMormonism.com

In another thread we had discussed that for as unpopular as Trump is in national polls, the electoral college map for 2020 isn't nearly as determined and blue. National polls regarding Trump's popularity are, like the popular vote, nice information that has little bearing on the actual political landscape in the US. GOP Senators and Congresspersons are no more beholden to national polls than is the electoral college and we sometimes think there is more momentum in a particular direction than is reflected on the ground broadly around the country because of this.

Case in point, a poll this week out of Wisconsin found the majority of voters were not in favor of seeing Trump impeached and removed from office despite the national trend having tipped the opposite direction for a few weeks now as more and more damning evidence has leaked out of the closed door House hearings.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/26/politics ... index.html

As Clinton's election in 2016 seemed inevitable, it was largely because of this same focus on big but politically meaningless numbers.

Now, it's far from definitive this is where voters and their representatives will remain as the closed door investigations turn to open hearings and it seems unless the nation is somehow giving an immunity to the evidence due to having taken too many small ineffective doses before hand we should expect that number to move closer to the national position. But still, when it comes to modern American politics the game isn't won or lost in big grand moments. It's at the edges where some small minority view ends up being the difference makers.

How much of a minority are we talkin’ here, or are you just addressing the popular vote thing? Master race checking in...



- Doc

Whether there is justice in this country should depend on the opinions of a handful of fickle voters in a few mid-sized states. It's as the founders intended.

EAllusion wrote:Whether there is justice in this country should depend on the opinions of a handful of fickle voters in a few mid-sized states. It's as the founders intended.

how are you imagining that it ever relies upon a "handful"? it never has and is impossible within the reality of being alive.

subgenius wrote:

EAllusion wrote:Whether there is justice in this country should depend on the opinions of a handful of fickle voters in a few mid-sized states. It's as the founders intended.

how are you imagining that it ever relies upon a "handful"? it never has and is impossible within the reality of being alive.

The number of swing voters in swing states who can and will shift their opinion on subjects like this represent a tiny fraction of the overall population of the country. Handful is a relative term, Subs.

Waiting to fulfill a basic oath to defend the Constitution on whether a handful of people in Wisconsin who couldn't explain the Constitution to you if their life depended on it thinks its a good idea is an obnoxious way to consider political morality and is very much not the intended framework of government.

There is a segment of the population that is unaware of Trump's political machinations and lies. This segment may have heard something about a witchhunt on Fox News which is attacking Trump due to his "godly righteousness". Their erroneous perception does not stem from these people being evil or imbeciles, they are simply victims of misinformation.

This group has come to expect conspiracy theories from Fox News to explain how things work. Therefore, it is important to explain to them that their misinformation comes from a 1970s conspiratorial triumvirate of Spiro Agnew, Rupert Murdoch, and the Mole People from the center of the earth.

That's not what is going on.

EAllusion wrote:Waiting to fulfill a basic oath to defend the Constitution on whether a handful of people in Wisconsin who couldn't explain the Constitution to you if their life depended on it thinks its a good idea is an obnoxious way to consider political morality and is very much not the intended framework of government.

It's more promising that the majority at least favor the investigation process. Given the information we have from the statements being released from the inquiry hearings, and the sources of that information being who they are, I tend to view the current resistance in some pockets as a momentary position that could quite readily swing to supporting removal once the full weight and testimony is taken public. Of course, I also caveat that with my concerns with the Democrat leadership having yet to show they can manage a public hearing without undermining their own cause so there is that to consider.

moksha wrote:Their erroneous perception does not stem from these people being evil or imbeciles, they are simply victims of misinformation.

It actually is rather imbecilic to rely on only one source of information for your news. You have to have your head buried in right wing nonsense media to not see what's going on, and if you are, you likely are an imbecile.

Check out this article. Trump's most loyal fans watch Fox exclusively.

To me, that screams idiocy.

This thread isn't about Trump's base. Left with only his most loyal voters he won't win in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania or Florida. And without those three states he won't win in 2020. The attempt to reduce Trump voters into a stereotypical and dismissable description isn't helpful. Reality can be ridiculously reduceable at times but is generally more complex. It's a device of those opposed to a position to try and reduce the other side into something simplistic and wiped of any resemblance of the real people involved. I'm suggesting the need here is to resist that urge to be able to be more informed and, if possible, proactive in engaging with the politics of the moment. We are in the situation we are in at least in part because of Democrat failure to do so in 2016.