The disintegration of American democracy thread

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_Maksutov
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Re: The disintegration of American democracy thread

Post by _Maksutov »

Smokey wrote:Be careful, Boomer friend. I was once like you.

There is no cure for the Red Pill.

Image


Oooooooooh. That is so deep. And yet the only reason you even know about Heisenberg is because of Dan Peterson. :lol:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... igion.html

We have real physicists here on the board. I dare you to talk to them about this. :wink: Your newfound scientific interest is about as deep and authentic and accomplished as your historical knowledge, little Earl. :lol: :lol: :lol:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Res Ipsa
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Re: The disintegration of American democracy thread

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Physics Guy is a real physicist who also believes in God. It would not surprise me in the least if he generally agreed with the quote. It would also not make me think any less of him as a physicist or as a person. And if the Heisenberg quote is accurate, it doesn’t make me think less of him as a scientist. Neither does it persuade me that his God exists.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Dr Exiled
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Re: The disintegration of American democracy thread

Post by _Dr Exiled »

huckelberry wrote:
Exiled wrote:You're so conspiratorial EAllusion. 4 chan for democrats anyone?What's your proof of this supposed authoritarianism that is going to force us into some sort of fascist government? Is it just presumed like you claimed it was with Clinton's utterly baseless Russian puppet claims she recently made? If it is true as you claim, how do we deal with it? Should a democratic party force come in and bring the very authoritarianism you supposedly hate to stop the Trump authoritarianism? How about we deal with the issues people want, get a people's candidate, sware off of corporate money and vote out this Trump clown in 2020? Voter turnout should easily beat Trump, if the democrat super delegates can go against their corporate donors.

Exilded, Corporations are a large and important reality of America or the larger industrial world. Are you sure it is a good idea to avoid their money and influence? (aside from the consideration that that cannot happen no matter how long one pouts about it)

There is a reason anti-trust laws are on the books and at one time they were enforced. One can have a king controlling everything or one can have a cartel of corporations controlling everything. It seems to be the same thing at a certain point. This is why too big to fail should never be in our lexicon. This is why we should distrust corporate money in our elections. Corporations just want to make money and progressively at our expense. Over the last 40 years, income distribution has gone to the top at the expense of the rest of us. Corporate influence wants to keep that going. Hence, we should distrust it. Our goals ought to be to reverse the trend of the income distribution gravy train that has enriched the few at the expense of the many. This is the main goal, or should be, that continually gets obscured by corporate controlled narratives.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Some Schmo
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Re: The disintegration of American democracy thread

Post by _Some Schmo »

Religious people love to claim that atheists turn religious all the time. Why not? They don't feel the need to back up any of their other claims; why bother proving this one?

What they fail to understand is that some people don't talk themselves into comfortable beliefs. They let the evidence dictate what to believe, and since the evidence is never going to favor god belief, these people will always remain sensible from that perspective.

Children believe in gods and such. Adults have moved on. Unless you're reverting to your diaper days in retirement, you're likely never going to assume god belief again.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_DoubtingThomas
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Re: The disintegration of American democracy thread

Post by _DoubtingThomas »

Res Ipsa wrote:It would also not make me think any less of him as a physicist or as a person. .

That guy believes that god will never allow humans to become extinct. I wonder what his views on stem cell research and human cloning are. In his own field he believes that god somehow caused the Big Bang in a singularity and thinks that science ends at the Big Bang.
_DoubtingThomas
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Re: The disintegration of American democracy thread

Post by _DoubtingThomas »

EAllusion wrote:This is the thread in which we watch American democracy fall into ruin.

"Automation could replace up to 800 million jobs by 2035: Bank of America Merrill Lynch"

"The race to develop artificial intelligence technology could also have geopolitical implications. China is taking the promise of artificial intelligence seriously. That’s why Bank of America is expecting some big changes to the current trade war between the U.S. and China that has persisted for almost two years.

“We believe the current trade war will transition towards a tech war in the 2020s, which will see a new "arms race" between the U.S. and China to reach national superiority in technology over the long term vis-a-vis quantum computing, big data, 5G, artificial intelligence, electric vehicles, robotics, and cybersecurity etc,” they wrote."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/automati ... 10646.html

And the only candidate with a real solution is polling very low.
_Res Ipsa
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Re: The disintegration of American democracy thread

Post by _Res Ipsa »

DoubtingThomas wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:It would also not make me think any less of him as a physicist or as a person. .

That guy believes that god will never allow humans to become extinct. I wonder what his views on stem cell research and human cloning are. In his own field he believes that god somehow caused the Big Bang in a singularity and thinks that science ends at the Big Bang.

Would you be so kind as to link to the first statement?

As to the other two, there are lots of believing scientists, and it would not be unusual for them to believe God was responsible for the Big Bang. I don’t think that makes them bad people or bad scientists. We have no evidence of what came before the inflationary period, and science currently tells us we won’t get any. So I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that the science of cosmology stops at that point.

I’ve read lots of PG’s posts, and I’ve found his approach to religion to be thoughtful, nuanced, and flexible. He’s much more thoughtful and reasonable than some atheists I’ve encountered. I disagree with him about the existence of God, but agreeing with me is not a requirement for being a good person or a good scientist.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_DoubtingThomas
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Re: The disintegration of American democracy thread

Post by _DoubtingThomas »

Res Ipsa wrote:Would you be so kind as to link to the first statement?

He is a christian. Human extinction isn't compatible with christian doctrine.

Res Ipsa wrote:As to the other two, there are lots of believing scientists, and it would not be unusual for them to believe God was responsible for the Big Bang. I don’t think that makes them bad people or bad scientists. We have no evidence of what came before the inflationary period, and science currently tells us we won’t get any. So I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that the science of cosmology stops at that point.

Some christian scientists (especially Mormons) do not believe god caused the Big Bang. According to bio logos,"In addition, such “apologetic” use of the Big Bang ran against Lemaître’s rejection of concordism and against his defense of the independence of science and faith. Lemaître appealed to the scientific advisor of the pope, who persuaded Pius XII to avoid the apologetic use of his cosmology."

https://biologos.org/articles/georges-l ... e-universe

"According to Crawley, Mgr Lemaître was not happy with Pope Pius XII’s belief that the book of Genesis had been vindicated by his cosmological discoveries, and that “Fiat Lux!” (“Let there be light!”) coincided with his Big Bang theory. This was not because he rejected Genesis but because he felt the two disciplines, theology and science, should be studied separately without requiring mutual confirmation."

https://catholicherald.co.uk/commentand ... d-science/
_Res Ipsa
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Re: The disintegration of American democracy thread

Post by _Res Ipsa »

People who identify as Christian have a wide range of viewpoints. Perhaps if you got to know a few Christians and really listened to what they say, you might move away from your black and white thinking about Christians. Besides, why are you dictating what PG must believe when he’s right here on the boards. Anyway, thanks for confirming my suspicion that he hadn’t started that here.

As to the rest, I don’t know who you’re arguing with, but it’s not me. Some scientists take a philosophical stance that science and religion are two unrelated activities. If one is doing science, then don’t mix in religion. If one is doing religion, then don’t do science. That’s why the guy in the article urged the Pope not to use the Big Bang theory as a religious apologetic.

But that doesn’t tell us how he privately thinks about the Big Bang and God as creator of the heavens and the earth. Everybody’s brain works hard to make sense out of the information it has, and I doubt that any person who sees both the Big Bang and God significant can stop his brain from thinking about how the two relate.

Incidentally, how does a Mormon scientist who accepts the Big Bang theory view Gods relationship to the Big Bang theory?
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_DoubtingThomas
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Re: The disintegration of American democracy thread

Post by _DoubtingThomas »

Res Ipsa wrote:Incidentally, how does a Mormon scientist who accepts the Big Bang theory view Gods relationship to the Big Bang theory?

For many Mormon scientists the Big Bang was just an event and god had nothing to do with it.

Res Ipsa wrote:People who identify as Christian have a wide range of viewpoints. Perhaps if you got to know a few Christians and really listened to what they say, you might move away from your black and white thinking about Christians.

What christian denomination is open to the possibility of human extinction?
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