Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

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_Res Ipsa
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Yes, Exiled, that was the whole Ferguson problem. Law enforcement became the major source of the city’s revenue. It was the modern equivalent of owning one’s soul to the company store. Folks trapped in a never ending cycle of fines and court costs they could not pay. The (DOJ?) report was pretty shocking.

Good luck with your client. Three days for jaywalking sounds a tad excessive.

Have you given thought on how to restructure incentives within law enforcement to avoid the problem you describe?
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

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_Res Ipsa
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _Res Ipsa »

EAllusion wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:09 pm
I agree with all of Dr. Exiled's ideas with the exception of #4. Though I would like to see a pilot study to see if steroid abuse is a thing among police officers to be on the radar. It's also worth noting that body camera policies are a mixed bag and have to be implemented correctly to be benefit and not to be a spying tool. So, yes to body cameras, but only done correctly. I've seen too many stories of citizens finally pushing through a body camera reform only to find that the police retain the authority to selectively release or withhold body camera footage from the public to manipulate public perception.

The neat thing about the defund the police movement* is it has transformed my prior radicalism on police reform into the reasonable moderate position. I went from beleaguered ideological minority to mainstream in a blink. Now I can hobnob with centrist pundits, serious people, and such.

*Most of the people behind this seem to want what I want, but have decided to go with the most metal sounding name for their policy preferences. I don't know if this is good because it shifts the Overton window or bad because it scares away broad support.
Yeah, the approach should appeal to certain flavors of libertarian. The name does suck, though.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Chap
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _Chap »

ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:53 pm
At least Chap admits what he wants. The rest of you seem intent on putting on a dog and pony show of inscrutable legalese buried in the fine print that will let you do this without admitting exactly what you want.
Hey! I think that bit was added after I replied to ajax's post!

No skin off my nose in this case, but this new software apparently does not show whether posts have been edited.
Zadok:
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Maksutov:
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_Res Ipsa
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Chap: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therape ... isprudence It’s an eminently sensible approach to criminal justice, so of course Ajax despises it.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_EAllusion
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _EAllusion »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:15 pm
EAllusion wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:09 pm
I agree with all of Dr. Exiled's ideas with the exception of #4. Though I would like to see a pilot study to see if steroid abuse is a thing among police officers to be on the radar. It's also worth noting that body camera policies are a mixed bag and have to be implemented correctly to be benefit and not to be a spying tool. So, yes to body cameras, but only done correctly. I've seen too many stories of citizens finally pushing through a body camera reform only to find that the police retain the authority to selectively release or withhold body camera footage from the public to manipulate public perception.

The neat thing about the defund the police movement* is it has transformed my prior radicalism on police reform into the reasonable moderate position. I went from beleaguered ideological minority to mainstream in a blink. Now I can hobnob with centrist pundits, serious people, and such.

*Most of the people behind this seem to want what I want, but have decided to go with the most metal sounding name for their policy preferences. I don't know if this is good because it shifts the Overton window or bad because it scares away broad support.
Yeah, the approach should appeal to certain flavors of libertarian. The name does suck, though.
It reminds me of the abolish ICE movement a little bit. People who are calling to abolish the police, for the most part, are just calling for police reforms that civil libertarians have advocated happen for years and most people seem to think are reasonable when it is presented to them. It just never never goes anywhere due to political malincentives and some bad luck. But that's not removing police departments; it's changing them. Abolish ICE is a little different in that the goal is to disband the department, but they're not trying to end immigration and customs enforcement. They're trying to reconstitute the bureaucratic administration of it so it is less prone to abuse.
_DoubtingThomas
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _DoubtingThomas »

Chap wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:13 pm


This idea seemed crazy to me at first glance, but on consideration, not so much. If there are bad guys who do bad stuff, it seems logical to pay (supposedly) good guys to stop them. But is all that money spent on police actually reducing crime more effectively than other ways of spending?

Joe Biden doesn't like the idea.
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Police abolition movement:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_ ... n_movement

DtP:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police

Interestingly, the Minneapolis PD has a budget of ~200M for 2023, much higher than it was during the George Floyd unrest:

https://minneapolismn.opengov.com/transparency

Granted, I don’t know if this accounts for payouts for civil suits (there are a bunch of links for informational purposes, but I don’t feel like muddling through them).

For any Utahns:

https://www.decarcerateutah.org/about-abolition

working with:

http://criticalresistance.org/

founded by a Marxist:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Davis

a communist:

https://thedigradio.com/newsletter31/

and another communist, Rose Braz (RIP)

Interestingly, the SLCPD budget for FY23 increased 24.7% from FY22 to $103,944,583 million so it looks like the DtP movement in SLC lost a little steam, BUT social workers and training budgets have increased. So, it’s a small victory.

- Doc
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