Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

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_Chap
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Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _Chap »

Movement to defund police gains 'unprecedented' support across US

Activists say the way to stop police brutality and killings is to cut law enforcement budgets and reinvest in services. Some lawmakers now agree

This idea seemed crazy to me at first glance, but on consideration, not so much. If there are bad guys who do bad stuff, it seems logical to pay (supposedly) good guys to stop them. But is all that money spent on police actually reducing crime more effectively than other ways of spending?
The movement to defund the police is gaining significant support across America, including from elected leaders, as protests over the killing of George Floyd sweep the nation.

For years, activists have pushed US cities and states to cut law enforcement budgets amid a dramatic rise in spending on police and prisons while funding for vital social services has shrunk or disappeared altogether.

Government officials have long dismissed the idea as a leftist fantasy, but the recent unrest and massive budget shortfalls from the Covid-19 crisis appear to have inspired more mainstream recognition of the central arguments behind defunding.

“To see legislators who aren’t even necessarily on the left supporting at least a significant decrease in New York police department [NYPD] funding is really very encouraging,” Julia Salazar, a New York state senator and Democratic socialist, told the Guardian on Tuesday. “It feels a little bit surreal.”

Floyd’s death on camera in Minneapolis, advocates say, was a powerful demonstration that police reform efforts of the last half-decade have failed to stop racist policing and killings. Meanwhile, the striking visuals of enormous, militarized and at times violent police forces responding to peaceful protests have led some politicians to question whether police really need this much money and firepower.

Meanwhile, unemployment is surging amid the economic fallout of the coronavirus pandemic, with housing and healthcare crises worsening. Many governments have been making painful cuts to services and expect to see tax revenue fall even further in the coming year. But police budgets have not been affected, and some mayors are even seeking to expand law enforcement funding.

A snapshot of some of city budget debates that have escalated this week:

Los Angeles: the police budget is $1.8bn, and the mayor has for weeks been pushing for raises and bonuses for officers and an overall 7% increase that would make the budget more than half of the general fund. But on Wednesday, he said he was now looking to make cuts to the police budget.
New York: The mayor is pushing to leave the NYPD’s nearly $6bn budget intact while slashing education and youth programs and cutting other agencies by as much as 80%.
Philadelphia: The mayor has proposed spending $977m on police and prisons, which is 20% of the general fund. A $14m increase for police comes as the city is cutting funding for youth violence prevention, arts and culture, workforce development, and laying off staff at recreation centers and libraries.
Defunding, said activist Jeralynn Blueford, is the logical response from leaders in this moment of unprecedented unrest. “If police had been serious about reform and policy change, then guess what? People would not be this angry.”

Blueford’s son was killed by Oakland police in 2012 and she’s been fighting for reforms since. “We allowed you to kill our children, and you said this was going to change, and you reneged on it. If we keep funding them, it gives them the green light to continue ”.

Community groups advocating for defunding have put forward differing strategies, some merely opposing police budget increases, others advocating mass reductions, and some fighting for full defunding as a step toward abolishing police forces. Some initiatives are tied to the fight to close prisons. All are pushing for a reinvestment of those dollars in services.

Amid the protests, some local leaders with budgeting powers have started proposing modest cuts to policing. The most substantial change so far, has come in Minneapolis where the school board on Tuesday voted to end its contract with the police department. The University of Minnesota has also pledged to stop working with police.

“People have been fighting for years to get cops out of schools, and now it’s happening overnight,” said Tony Williams, a member of MPD150, an abolition group whose literature on building a “police-free future” has spread on social media in recent days. One elected Minneapolis ward member said this week that the city’s police department was “irredeemably beyond reform”, the kind of remark that would until recently have been unthinkable to organizers.

“This is unprecedented in our movement, but it is a natural consequence of where we’ve been over the last five years,” Williams said, rattling off high-profile killings by police that have failed to lead to substantive reforms.

Eric Garcetti, the Los Angeles mayor, addressed the broader protests in a speech late Wednesday night and said he was now working to make cuts of up to $150m to the police budget and reinvest funds in black communities, though specifics of his plans were unclear.

His move comes after a coalition convened by Black Lives Matter LA pushed for what it called a “people’s budget”, which encouraged the city to spend only 5.7% of its general fund on law enforcement, and 44% on universal aid and crisis management.

“In moments of crisis, people want services and resources that go directly to help people rather than police that surveil, brutalize and kill us,” said Melina Abdullah, the BLM LA co-founder, adding that Garcetti’s proposed cut was “minimal” and that officials “need to go much further”.

Even though many US police departments’ duties are responding to non-violent, non-emergency calls, departments have expanded their military-style arsenal in recent years. US police kill more people in days than many other countries do in years.

Senator Salazar in New York said the Covid-19 devastation is motivating lawmakers normally sympathetic to the NYPD to rethink the budget: “Every senate office … has been fielding an unfathomable number of unemployment claims. We’ve been thinking every day about how social services and the public safety net are failing people. Having come out of a bleak state budget process, it’s very frustrating to hear that $6bn figure for the NYPD.”

The city councilmember who chairs the committee that oversees the budget called for significant NYPD cuts this week. Although she doesn’t control NYPD financing as a state lawmaker, Salazar said she could envision police immediately losing $1bn from its budget just for current police functions that have nothing to do with law enforcement and crime, such as responding to mental health calls and other social services.

Kamau Walton, a Philadelphia-based member of Critical Resistance, a long-running US abolition group, said the absurdity of increased police spending in this moment was visible to many. Walton lives across from a recreation center and library that has been closed due to Covid, and said houseless people now gather outside, because they have nowhere else to go.

The city, however, is further cutting housing and homelessness services and seems to lack a summer plan for these communities who have lost programs, resources and jobs, they said. “At a drop of a dime, they can find money for uber-militarized tanks and fly helicopters all over the city and shoot rubber bullets, but we can’t put people in houses?”

Kelly Lytle Hernández, a UCLA historian and recent MacArthur recipient, said this could be a pivotal moment for the US: “We’ve created over the last 30 to 40 years a sense that our safety and wellbeing always comes from investing more and more in police.”

This week, it seems there is increasing recognition of this failure, she said, adding, “Defunding the police is the first step in a much broader historical transformation that I’m hoping you’re seeing broad-based support for on the streets today.”
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

So, here’s the DA’s summary of findings reference Alan Blueford’s death:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentclo ... ooting.pdf

So. I think the idea is intriguing, for sure. We’ve created a system where people have become sort of caged in their worlds, with no way to make that world better in of itself. It has a sort of feedback loop effect of mistrust and violence. In the linked report you basically have a couple of cops on a beat, they see typical behavior that belies gun possession (this is just a natural result of experience), the suspects do a thing indicating they discarded something, this opens the door for the officers to investigate, and then Blueford panics because he has a gun on him, he flees, he ignores repeated requests to stop because he knows he’s going to jail if detained, out of panic and desperation he makes the decision to point his gun at the pursuing officer (but doesn’t fire it most likely because he never intended to eco e a cop killer - and most people are inherently opposed to murdering others), the cop rightly fearing for his safety does what he’s trained to do, and the kid is dead.

Perhaps this could’ve been avoided. How? I’m not totally sure. Perhaps patrolling social workers could do a better job and getting guns and drugs off the streets without getting people shot. Perhaps throwing billions of dollars at people through free housing, food, education, and medical will be more cost effective. I don’t know. I know blaming the kid for the choices he made won’t make any sense if you’re willing to be open to the idea that he was born to fail due to circumstance. How we fix that, and how much money we can actually spend doing that, will be the thing people argue over moving forward.

- Doc
_moksha
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _moksha »

The police can be both a stabilizing and destabilizing force in our society depending on the level of their lawlessness.
_Chap
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _Chap »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:06 pm
Perhaps patrolling social workers could do a better job and getting guns and drugs off the streets without getting people shot.
'Patrolling social workers' as a direct substitute for police? Gimme a break. Who on earth is suggesting such a stupid idea?

Think public health. Money spent on (for instance) ensuring that people had good sanitation to remove human waste safely, and drinking and washing water free of pollutants and bacteria is acknowledged have done more to reduce sickness more than multiplying doctors could have done. Yet it would be clearly crazy to suggest that anyone dying of typhoid should have been immediately visited by 'patrolling drain engineers'.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:06 pm
Perhaps throwing billions of dollars at people through free housing, food, education, and medical will be more cost effective.
The expression 'throwing money at' something is a description with a built-in conclusion - that the activity described is carried on with reckless wastefulness without any real thought as to how it could be effectively directed. Using those those words risks foreclosing on thinking about whether, for instance, a million dollars more spent on raising the standards of public education in a poor area might or might not do more to reduce crime levels long-term than a million dollars more spent on more paramilitary equipment for police.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:06 pm
I know blaming the kid for the choices he made won’t make any sense if you’re willing to be open to the idea that he was born to fail due to circumstance. How we fix that, and how much money we can actually spend doing that, will be the thing people argue over moving forward.
I'm certainly with you there.
_Icarus
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _Icarus »

Cops seize masks that disrespect them...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/black-li ... c1a40159b9
_ajax18
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _ajax18 »

For years, activists have pushed US cities and states to cut law enforcement budgets amid a dramatic rise in spending on police and prisons while funding for vital social services has shrunk or disappeared altogether.
Just get rid of that second amendment and you'll be unstoppable.
_Chap
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _Chap »

ajax18 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:15 pm
For years, activists have pushed US cities and states to cut law enforcement budgets amid a dramatic rise in spending on police and prisons while funding for vital social services has shrunk or disappeared altogether.
Just get rid of that second amendment and you'll be unstoppable.
My hack reveals the code behind ajax18's post:
IF "Cannot compute" = TRUE Then

PRINT "They want to take away our guns!'

END
_ajax18
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _ajax18 »

Community groups advocating for defunding have put forward differing strategies, some merely opposing police budget increases, others advocating mass reductions, and some fighting for full defunding as a step toward abolishing police forces. Some initiatives are tied to the fight to close prisons. All are pushing for a reinvestment of those dollars in services
Abolish the police or at least make it illegal to arrest anyone of color. I knew this was coming. Doc says I'm a fool. I think he's a fool for turning in his gun. It's pretty clear that when it comes to protecting yourself or your business you're on your own. People can risk jail time for defending themselves or just forfeit their property to the arsonists and vandals.
_huckelberry
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _huckelberry »

In my memory defund means stop all funding. I checked online dictionary it agreed with me. So is this discussion a lets mangle language to create more confusion?

Without pay police would not adjust methods of police work they would stop. There are of course long standing organizations that sell protection and fund themselves with other related underground activities. They could quickly grow to take over the whole process. There would be no need for the expense of courts lawyers jails. Justice of a sort could be quick.

I notice that some discussion of this after using mangled language make more reasonable observations about how US may be putting too much investment and jails, guards and making arrests.
,,,,,
I read Doc as speaking ironically (no?)
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

[quote=Chap post_id=1227333 time=1591372067 user_id=681]
[quote="Doctor CamNC4Me" post_id=1227246 time=1591304781 user_id=3779]
Perhaps patrolling social workers could do a better job and getting guns and drugs off the streets without getting people shot. [/quote]

'Patrolling social workers' as a direct substitute for police? Gimme a break. Who on earth is suggesting such a stupid idea?
I'm certainly with you there.
[/quote]

It's being floated by various leftist organizations as a change to the current policing system.

- Doc
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