Police violence, rising crime: a modest proposal ...

[_Chap]

Wouldn't we still need to have some people with the authority, resources and training to apprehend, arrest and incarcerate murderers, assaulters, thieves, sexual molesters, traffic violators and others who endanger public safety, and what would we call those tasked with that responsibility, other than police?

Yup. That there should be nobody at all with the training and resources (including weapons) needed to respond with adequate force to determined violent lawbreakers is nuts, especially in a society awash with high-power firearms like the US.

The question is, however, whether the present system of policing in many US cities is capable of being reformed to make it less violent, militaristic and racist, or whether US policing needs to be re-founded from the ground up - which would've course involve transferring funds away from the present system ('defunding') into new institutions - including ones which work to tackle the roots of violence in poverty, ignorance, mental illness and racism, as well as organising an appropriately (note that word) forceful response to any violence now in being.

By the way, I am very glad that DrC has. in the person of "Tony Williams, a member of MPD150" at last found an identifable crazy leftist who imagines that he can construct a world in which he needs no organised body whatsoever capable of practicing legitimised violence.

[_Dr Exiled]

Here are some of my proposals (they may have already been discussed above but these are my thoughts after reading the OP title)

1. Decriminalize drugs and make it a public health problem like Portugal did.
2. Get rid of for profit prisons and the bad incentives they provide.
3. Better training for police where there is less of an us v. them mentality where the public is looked on as the bad guy automatically.
4. Drug test the police for steroids or other ped's that make the police into raging animals.
5. Demilitarize the police. Since 9/11, the police have become more and more military like where they are trained in military tactics and have military hardware. Let's de-escalate the tension and not create more by training the police for a war that doesn't and shouldn't exist against the population.
6. Make it impossible to turn off body cams and require that the police always have the cams on while on duty.
7. Give the public more control over reviewing police misconduct and automatically have another jurisdiction be in charge of prosecuting the accused.

[_Res Ipsa]

I think that’s a pretty good list. There’s one problem with the cameras that I don’t know how to address: I don’t think the police should be filming peaceful protestors or other folks engaged in lawful activity. I would add attacking the problems of mental health and homelessness at their roots instead of expecting police to deal with them. Implement principles of restorative justice at all levels of the judicial system. I think we need to start thinking of people as valuable assets to be invested in instead of writing them off at the first convenient excuse.

[_Icarus]

Here are some of my proposals (they may have already been discussed above but these are my thoughts after reading the OP title)

1. Decriminalize drugs and make it a public health problem like Portugal did.
2. Get rid of for profit prisons and the bad incentives they provide.
3. Better training for police where there is less of an us v. them mentality where the public is looked on as the bad guy automatically.
4. Drug test the police for steroids or other ped's that make the police into raging animals.
5. Demilitarize the police. Since 9/11, the police have become more and more military like where they are trained in military tactics and have military hardware. Let's de-escalate the tension and not create more by training the police for a war that doesn't and shouldn't exist against the population.
6. Make it impossible to turn off body cams and require that the police always have the cams on while on duty.
7. Give the public more control over reviewing police misconduct and automatically have another jurisdiction be in charge of prosecuting the accused.

1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Agree
4. Agree, although I doubt drugs has much to do with anything.
5. Agree
6. Agree, and I would take it a step further and make it a crime for policemen to intentionally turn off their camera during an arrest.
7. Agree

I would add more to make it legal for people to resist arrest when they're being murdered. I would also get rid of publicly handcuffing people, give them the option to turn themselves in with the exception of violent crimes. I know this seems counter intuitive, because who would turn themselves in right? Well, most people are being arrested for non-violent crimes I believe would, especially if they understand that failure to do so means greater punishment.

[_ajax18]

6. Make it impossible to turn off body cams and require that the police always have the cams on while on duty.

How is that gonna work. My GoPro shuts off an hour into my matches or coaching sessions.

Well, most people are being arrested for non-violent crimes I believe would, especially if they understand that failure to do so means greater punishment.

That would last up to the point someone notices that blacks are getting longer sentences because they resist more often.

[_ajax18]

including ones which work to tackle the roots of violence in poverty, ignorance, mental illness and racism, as well as organising an appropriately (note that word) forceful response to any violence now in being.

Why not just cut to the chase and make it illegal arrest or incarcerate a minority. That's pretty much what therapeutic jurisprudence is about now. Why not call a spade a spade? At least Chap admits what he wants. The rest of you seem intent on putting on a dog and pony show of inscrutable legalese buried in the fine print that will let you do this without admitting exactly what you want.

[_Chap]

including ones which work to tackle the roots of violence in poverty, ignorance, mental illness and racism, as well as organising an appropriately (note that word) forceful response to any violence now in being.

Why not just cut to the chase and make illegal arrest or incarcerate a minority. That's pretty much what therapeutic jurisprudence is about now. Why not call a spade a spade?

I am not suggesting that people in full possession of their faculties who commit crimes should be spared justice.

I just want to ensure that a kid born poor ends up having enough real chance of the American Dream as a middle-class kid, since that will reduce his or her likelihood of turning to crime and requiring policing and incarceration.

So what's the therapeutic jurisprudence crap?

[_Dr Exiled]

I think that’s a pretty good list. There’s one problem with the cameras that I don’t know how to address: I don’t think the police should be filming peaceful protestors or other folks engaged in lawful activity. I would add attacking the problems of mental health and homelessness at their roots instead of expecting police to deal with them. Implement principles of restorative justice at all levels of the judicial system. I think we need to start thinking of people as valuable assets to be invested in instead of writing them off at the first convenient excuse.

Re body cams: That's a good point. Perhaps have a mechanism where a citizen's group reviews and deletes irrelevant material that invades privacy?

I also like the points about the homeless. We have ample resources to take care of the homeless if we trimmed the military budget back a little bit. However, it is probably too novel of an idea to actually treat people as valuable assets (or partners) when master/slave seems to be what's driving capitalism. Maybe let's reset the economy back to the 1970's as far as distribution of wealth? Back then CEO's made 5X what the average worker made and not 300X or 500X or whatever it is. Let's give the population more wealth and the free time it entails so more can actually take part in our local and national government.

[_Dr Exiled]

Here are some of my proposals (they may have already been discussed above but these are my thoughts after reading the OP title)

1. Decriminalize drugs and make it a public health problem like Portugal did.
2. Get rid of for profit prisons and the bad incentives they provide.
3. Better training for police where there is less of an us v. them mentality where the public is looked on as the bad guy automatically.
4. Drug test the police for steroids or other ped's that make the police into raging animals.
5. Demilitarize the police. Since 9/11, the police have become more and more military like where they are trained in military tactics and have military hardware. Let's de-escalate the tension and not create more by training the police for a war that doesn't and shouldn't exist against the population.
6. Make it impossible to turn off body cams and require that the police always have the cams on while on duty.
7. Give the public more control over reviewing police misconduct and automatically have another jurisdiction be in charge of prosecuting the accused.

1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Agree
4. Agree, although I doubt drugs has much to do with anything.
5. Agree
6. Agree, and I would take it a step further and make it a crime for policemen to intentionally turn off their camera during an arrest.
7. Agree

I would add more to make it legal for people to resist arrest when they're being murdered. I would also get rid of publicly handcuffing people, give them the option to turn themselves in with the exception of violent crimes. I know this seems counter intuitive, because who would turn themselves in right? Well, most people are being arrested for non-violent crimes I believe would, especially if they understand that failure to do so means greater punishment.

For those opposed to less initial jail time, the State already releases a lot of "offenders" on their own recognizance already, trusting that they will come back to court to face the charges, whatever they may be. This makes sense.

Oh, I would add to my list to stop giving incentives based on arrest and incarceration statistics. Police are incentivized to write up tickets and book harmless offenders. I have a client right now who was sent to jail for three days merely because he was jay-walking. The police claim that he didn't have identification and so supposedly there was probable cause to arrest him. He is african-american of course and the two police officers were white. It will be interesting to find out the charges when the State weighs in. It looks like being black might have something to do with being sent to jail. I don't hear of these types of complaints among my white clients. The first court date is toward the end of July.

[_EAllusion]

I agree with all of Dr. Exiled's ideas with the exception of #4. Though I would like to see a pilot study to see if steroid abuse is a thing among police officers to be on the radar. It's also worth noting that body camera policies are a mixed bag and have to be implemented correctly to be benefit and not to be a spying tool. So, yes to body cameras, but only done correctly. I've seen too many stories of citizens finally pushing through a body camera reform only to find that the police retain the authority to selectively release or withhold body camera footage from the public to manipulate public perception.

The neat thing about the defund the police movement* is it has transformed my prior radicalism on police reform into the reasonable moderate position. I went from beleaguered ideological minority to mainstream in a blink. Now I can hobnob with centrist pundits, serious people, and such.

*Most of the people behind this seem to want what I want, but have decided to go with the most metal sounding name for their policy preferences. I don't know if this is good because it shifts the Overton window or bad because it scares away broad support.