Page 2 of 3
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:41 pm
by _Themis
Chap wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:17 pm
subgenius wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:46 pm
... Trump recognizes that there are civil servants who do not actually "serve" the civil but serve their own political goals even if that undermines whatever the current administration's goals are at the time - which is obviously a problem, and it is actually the point of this order.
Nope. This is Donald Trump, for goodness sake.
Back in 2016, there might have been some room for doubt about it, but we've seen him in operation for four years now, and he makes no secret of how he thinks and operates. It's become clear that Res Ipsa has it right: Trump wants 'loyal' civil servants who, whatever technical, scientific or military expertise they may have, will keep their traps shut when telling the truth might embarrass him.
Subby is either being stupid or trolling. Is it that hard to see that giving civil servants protection from the political establishment gives them the freedom to do their job and do it well. Trump has shown us almost 4 years of hating that protection and is now taking that away. Taking that protection away from civil servants means they will have to toe the political line regardless of whether it is right. This will make government much more dysfunctional and more prone to doing things poorly. Dictator types like Trump want this.
You will end up with two types of civil servants. One that gets replaced every-time you get a president that doesn't like what they say, and the other, which will alter what they say for each president. Like having a civil servant expert in climatology who will criticize global warming whenever a Trump type is in power and then say it is real and a problem when a Biden type is president. This is why they need protection from the political establishment so they can do their job. Every president before Trump understand the importance of this and appreciated having all the facts. Even the ones that didn't fit their politics. Trump really has been a disaster for the US.
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:25 pm
by _Res Ipsa
I don't think Sub is doing either one. Trumpers are so rabidly partisan that they think everyone else is too. They can't conceive that Trump could be wrong on the facts, so anyone who presents an inconvenient fact is, by definition, a partisan trying to sabotage the president's agenda. It's "you're with us or against us" run rampant in a post-truth bubble.
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:30 pm
by _canpakes
As if the optimal situation in a diverse nation is that the entire ranks of the civil service should be tested and deemed loyal to the particular political viewpoint of one party or person in the first place, lol.
Themis wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:41 pm
Subby is either being stupid or trolling.
No reason to wonder which applies, as subs always aspires for both.
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:28 pm
by _Themis
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:25 pm
I don't think Sub is doing either one. Trumpers are so rabidly partisan that they think everyone else is too. They can't conceive that Trump could be wrong on the facts, so anyone who presents an inconvenient fact is, by definition, a partisan trying to sabotage the president's agenda. It's "you're with us or against us" run rampant in a post-truth bubble.
One of the concerning things I see from this is growing support for the one party state. Ajax is on record as supporting a one party state run by republicans and I would not be surprised subby also supporting the same thing.
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:09 pm
by _canpakes
This just in:
The head of an advisory council on federal pay resigned from his post Monday in protest over President Donald Trump's recent executive order stripping civil service protections from key federal workers.
"I have concluded that as a matter of conscience, I can no longer serve him or his Administration," Federal Salary Council Chair Ron Sanders, a Trump appointee, wrote in his resignation letter to the director of the Personnel Executive Office of the President, the text of which was obtained by POLITICO.
"It is clear that its stated purpose notwithstanding, the Executive Order is nothing more than a smokescreen for what is clearly an attempt to require the political loyalty of those who advise the President, or failing that, to enable their removal with little if any due process," he wrote.
Trump named Sanders, who also served under the Bush administration, to the position in December 2017. The advisory group is responsible for providing recommendations to the White House on how best to tailor federal pay depending on regional costs of living.
The executive order, issued Wednesday, stripped job protections for many federal workers in a move that unions and Democrats denounced as an attempt to politicize the civil service.
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:38 pm
by _Jersey Girl
Listen. If anyone sees anything about Fed Civ Service retirements, please plaster it here or send me a PM about it. Thanks!
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:51 am
by _moksha
Making the entire workings of our government subject to unqualified Trump appointees is appalling. These appointees will stand in opposition to the very programs they are managing. Insider trading will be rampant and it would not surprise me that venal Trump appointees will try to cut side deals with foreign governments in exchange for sensitive information.
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:25 pm
by _subgenius
moksha wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:51 am
Making the entire workings of our government subject to unqualified Trump appointees is appalling. These appointees will stand in opposition to the very programs they are managing. Insider trading will be rampant and it would not surprise me that venal Trump appointees will try to cut side deals with foreign governments in exchange for sensitive information.
Yes, the long lasting tradition of having "appointees" qualified for the position appointed is in grave jeopardy...only Hunter Biden can save us...er, I mean James Biden...nope - Joe...Joe Biden is our only "hope".
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:24 pm
by _canpakes
subgenius wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:25 pm
moksha wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:51 am
Making the entire workings of our government subject to unqualified Trump appointees is appalling. These appointees will stand in opposition to the very programs they are managing. Insider trading will be rampant and it would not surprise me that venal Trump appointees will try to cut side deals with foreign governments in exchange for sensitive information.
Yes, the long lasting tradition of having "appointees" qualified for the position appointed is in grave jeopardy...only Hunter Biden can save us...er, I mean James Biden...nope - Joe...Joe Biden is our only "hope".
‘Qualified’ being determined solely by the appointee’s willingness to state their unwavering support for the current President, right? ; )
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:39 pm
by _Res Ipsa
Themis wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:28 pm
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:25 pm
I don't think Sub is doing either one. Trumpers are so rabidly partisan that they think everyone else is too. They can't conceive that Trump could be wrong on the facts, so anyone who presents an inconvenient fact is, by definition, a partisan trying to sabotage the president's agenda. It's "you're with us or against us" run rampant in a post-truth bubble.
One of the concerning things I see from this is growing support for the one party state. Ajax is on record as supporting a one party state run by republicans and I would not be surprised subby also supporting the same thing.
The republican party has had that as an explicit goal at least since the days of Karl Rove.