Thread for discussing climate change

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Res Ipsa
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Re: Thread for discussing climate change

Post by Res Ipsa »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:57 pm
Xenophon wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:08 pm
Maybe I'm crazy but didn't that drop in 2020 come with some government restrictions/assistance along with huge changes to the work environment to facilitate that drop? Or did we all just collectively decide to not travel that week?

Your attempt to show our hypocrisy is actually an amazing example of how it will require governments and society to make drastic shifts as a whole in order to achieve real change.
Bullxxxt! You don't need government to restrict your actions to make fundamental changes in your life that would lesson the effects of climate change. You're just unwilling to accept the fact that we each have a responsibility if there's going to be an actual change. Real climate change starts at home.

One easy example. I like breast, a lot😁. So let's follow the life of a chicken. A commercially raised chicken is hatched in a hatchery which takes a tremendous amount of electricity to operate. Then it's put on a gas guzzling truck an transported to a grow out. While at the grow out, it's there for around 45 days, it will take a tremendous amount of electricity to raise the chicken to a commercial weight. Then it's put on a gas-guzzling truck and transported to a slaughter house. The slaughter house also takes a tremendous amount of electricity to operate and after slaughter, the chicken it's put on a gas-guzzling truck and sent to the supermarket where a tremendous amount of electricity is used to keep it refrigerated until you jump in your gas guzzling vehicle, drive to the supermarket where the supermarket is still using a tremendous amount of electricity so you can walk in under the bright lights, walk to a refrigerated cabinet and pick up the chicken, then jump back in your gas guzzling vehicle and drive home. All that energy/CO2 so you can eat a delicious chicken! Why? Why not raise your own flock of chickens and eliminate all the energy needed to raise/transport chicken? Are you telling me you need government to hold your silky soft little hand to effect change? Do you have a good answer?
There is a good answer: when measured in greenhouse gas emissions per mass of protein produced, backyard chickens raised for meat produce greenhouse gases at only a slightly lower rate than commercially raised chickens. Backyard chickens raised for eggs produce greenhouse gases at a higher rate than commercially raised chickens. Depending on whether you raise chickens for meat or eggs, raising your own chickens instead of buying them at the store ranges from a negligible decrease in greenhouse gas emissions to an increase in greenhouse gas emissions.

The problem is, all you did was list all the ways you thought use of energy could be saved. But you didn't take into account that, if I'm going to the store anyway, the marginal cost of store bought chicken is zero in terms of my fuel consumption, zero in terms of lighting, etc. You also failed to take into account efficiencies in the way commercial chickens are raised that result in more protein being produced per volume of greenhouse gas emissions.

There's certainly nothing wrong with self-sufficiency. But raising chickens in your backyard is not going to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. In fact, the world is producing close to 50 billion tons of CO2-eq in greenhouse gases per year. Raising chickens produces a total of about .6 billion tons. So, even if we stopped growing chickens completely, we'd have reduced greenhouse gas emissions by about 1%. But, assuming people replaced eating chickens and eggs with a different source of calories and protein, the savings would be even less. And if they, say, replaced chicken with beef, the result would be an increased rate of CO2 emissions.

If you want to get the right answers, you can't just fake your way through an analysis. You have to put in the time and effort. The source for the figures I quoted is here: https://www.fao.org/3/i3460e/i3460e.pdf For the comparison of greenhouse gas emissions for commercially raised chickens and backyard chickens, see table 32.
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canpakes
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Re: Thread for discussing climate change

Post by canpakes »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:52 pm
I can tell you're a city boy, stop making excuses. If you want help raising meet I suggest quail. I'll help if you have questions.

Lol. Some city. I currently have pumpkins, corn and tomatoes growing and we use it all. Don’t discount those seasonal cucurbits until you’ve seen how much tasty bread, soup and mashed potato mix-ins you can get with the pumpkins alone.

We considered chickens, but the work required to make our space ‘raccoon proof’ makes it prohibitive. That’s not a ‘city’ problem.

Besides, your response again shows your two-dimensional perspective. It’s great that you have some advantages in raising chickens. Most folks don’t share the same advantages. You pitched your solution as somehow being valid on a much more massive scale than exceeds your own property. ; )
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Thread for discussing climate change

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:58 pm
Atlanticmike wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:57 pm
Bullxxxt! You don't need government to restrict your actions to make fundamental changes in your life that would lesson the effects of climate change. You're just unwilling to accept the fact that we each have a responsibility if there's going to be an actual change. Real climate change starts at home.
If you want to get the right answers, you can't just fake your way through an analysis. You have to put in the time and effort. The source for the figures I quoted is here: https://www.fao.org/3/i3460e/i3460e.pdf For the comparison of greenhouse gas emissions for commercially raised chickens and backyard chickens, see table 32.
I shared this Kurzgesagt video before, but I think it’s worth sharing again:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yiw6_JakZFc

Start at 9:40. Bottom line is placing the onus of solving climate change on the individual is a tactic used by governments and industry to avoid changing their approach to the problem, which is essentially nothing. I really, really recommend AM and others interested in this topic watch the video. It’s a cartoon narrated by a nice gentleman from the UK, so no excuses.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Thread for discussing climate change

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

canpakes wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:12 pm
Atlanticmike wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:52 pm
I can tell you're a city boy, stop making excuses. If you want help raising meet I suggest quail. I'll help if you have questions.

Lol. Some city. I currently have pumpkins, corn and tomatoes growing and we use it all. Don’t discount those seasonal cucurbits until you’ve seen how much tasty bread, soup and mashed potato mix-ins you can get with the pumpkins alone.

We considered chickens, but the work required to make our space ‘raccoon proof’ makes it prohibitive. That’s not a ‘city’ problem.

Besides, your response again shows your two-dimensional perspective. It’s great that you have some advantages in raising chickens. Most folks don’t share the same advantages. You pitched your solution as somehow being valid on a much more massive scale than exceeds your own property. ; )
You couldn’t raise enough chickens in your backyard to offset the pollution and resource consumption associated with raising chickens. AM’s glib suggestion just demonstrates, once again, that he lives in total denial of our shared reality.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
Cultellus

Re: Thread for discussing climate change

Post by Cultellus »

Well, if 1.6 percent of the bad crap in the air is from chickens, ban chickens. That way we can still have golf courses and stadium lights for the NFL.
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Atlanticmike
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Re: Thread for discussing climate change

Post by Atlanticmike »

canpakes wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:12 pm
Atlanticmike wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:52 pm
I can tell you're a city boy, stop making excuses. If you want help raising meet I suggest quail. I'll help if you have questions.

Lol. Some city. I currently have pumpkins, corn and tomatoes growing and we use it all. Don’t discount those seasonal cucurbits until you’ve seen how much tasty bread, soup and mashed potato mix-ins you can get with the pumpkins alone.

We considered chickens, but the work required to make our space ‘raccoon proof’ makes it prohibitive. That’s not a ‘city’ problem.

Besides, your response again shows your two-dimensional perspective. It’s great that you have some advantages in raising chickens. Most folks don’t share the same advantages. You pitched your solution as somehow being valid on a much more massive scale than exceeds your own property. ; )
No need for chickens, raise quail. They're actually tastier and quieter. Here, I'll help you get started. Call Bass equipment and order a 12" high X 48"wide X 36" deep rabbit cage with 1/2"x1/2" galvanized 14 gauge floor. You can hang the cage up 4' off the ground and you don't have to worry about coons or possums. Cover the top with plywood or get fancy and build a nice top/roof. Then go to myShire farms online and order 8 Coturnix quail hens and 2 roosters. Once they reach 8 weeks old you'll be getting around 5to6 eggs a day. If you buy an incubator later on, you can raise for meat. We eat around 15 or so quail a week. If you're not bothered by butchering small birds, you can process a quail out in about 60 seconds. Now stop making excuses and go save the environment instead if reading about how we are all doomed.
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Atlanticmike
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Re: Thread for discussing climate change

Post by Atlanticmike »

Cultellus wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:46 pm
Atlanticmike wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:40 pm


I feel so much lighter!! Thank you! Where have you been all my life?
Pretty cool, right?

Do you need help not being a Trumpster? Or a right wing friend?
Sure! Could you teach me how to be more PROGRESSIVE? Maybe it will help me smile less! People always say I seem so happy. I'm sure PROGRESSIVISM could cure me of that.
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Atlanticmike
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Re: Thread for discussing climate change

Post by Atlanticmike »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:58 pm
Atlanticmike wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:57 pm


Bullxxxt! You don't need government to restrict your actions to make fundamental changes in your life that would lesson the effects of climate change. You're just unwilling to accept the fact that we each have a responsibility if there's going to be an actual change. Real climate change starts at home.

One easy example. I like breast, a lot😁. So let's follow the life of a chicken. A commercially raised chicken is hatched in a hatchery which takes a tremendous amount of electricity to operate. Then it's put on a gas guzzling truck an transported to a grow out. While at the grow out, it's there for around 45 days, it will take a tremendous amount of electricity to raise the chicken to a commercial weight. Then it's put on a gas-guzzling truck and transported to a slaughter house. The slaughter house also takes a tremendous amount of electricity to operate and after slaughter, the chicken it's put on a gas-guzzling truck and sent to the supermarket where a tremendous amount of electricity is used to keep it refrigerated until you jump in your gas guzzling vehicle, drive to the supermarket where the supermarket is still using a tremendous amount of electricity so you can walk in under the bright lights, walk to a refrigerated cabinet and pick up the chicken, then jump back in your gas guzzling vehicle and drive home. All that energy/CO2 so you can eat a delicious chicken! Why? Why not raise your own flock of chickens and eliminate all the energy needed to raise/transport chicken? Are you telling me you need government to hold your silky soft little hand to effect change? Do you have a good answer?
There is a good answer: when measured in greenhouse gas emissions per mass of protein produced, backyard chickens raised for meat produce greenhouse gases at only a slightly lower rate than commercially raised chickens. Backyard chickens raised for eggs produce greenhouse gases at a higher rate than commercially raised chickens. Depending on whether you raise chickens for meat or eggs, raising your own chickens instead of buying them at the store ranges from a negligible decrease in greenhouse gas emissions to an increase in greenhouse gas emissions.

The problem is, all you did was list all the ways you thought use of energy could be saved. But you didn't take into account that, if I'm going to the store anyway, the marginal cost of store bought chicken is zero in terms of my fuel consumption, zero in terms of lighting, etc. You also failed to take into account efficiencies in the way commercial chickens are raised that result in more protein being produced per volume of greenhouse gas emissions.

There's certainly nothing wrong with self-sufficiency. But raising chickens in your backyard is not going to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. In fact, the world is producing close to 50 billion tons of CO2-eq in greenhouse gases per year. Raising chickens produces a total of about .6 billion tons. So, even if we stopped growing chickens completely, we'd have reduced greenhouse gas emissions by about 1%. But, assuming people replaced eating chickens and eggs with a different source of calories and protein, the savings would be even less. And if they, say, replaced chicken with beef, the result would be an increased rate of CO2 emissions.

If you want to get the right answers, you can't just fake your way through an analysis. You have to put in the time and effort. The source for the figures I quoted is here: https://www.fao.org/3/i3460e/i3460e.pdf For the comparison of greenhouse gas emissions for commercially raised chickens and backyard chickens, see table 32.
Why didn't you address all the CO2 emissions involved with transporting livestock and processed meat around? I bet there's 10,000 tractor trailers on the road right now transporting live or processed meat. All spewing exhaust because we've grown accustomed to having everything we eat grown and delivered to us. How many freezers or refrigerators are consuming electricity as we speak so you can conveniently walk into a grocery store and pick up a bag of chicken? How many styrofoam trays are being produced as we speak so you can take the chicken home safely and cleanly? Think about it! What's the energy consumption I described? That's all done because we're lazy, fat and rather watch TV than work outside. Hate to tell ya, but man made climate change is tied directly to our reliance on others and our obsession with convenience.

Here's an idea! Instead of teaching our youth about "equity" and brainwashing them with stupid critical race theory cult think, let's teach our youth how to be self reliant, to grow food at home. That they don't need to set the a/c to 70 in the summer or 72 in the winter. Let's teach them to extend the life of a car and to drive a car until 3 or 400,000 miles so we can stop producing so many vehicles. No? Would that inconvenient? Does a real environmentalist read and study about climate change or do they act? I act! You guys come on a board and complain about climate change. Big difference even though you can't admit it!
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canpakes
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Re: Thread for discussing climate change

Post by canpakes »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:06 pm
Why didn't you address all the CO2 emissions involved with transporting livestock and processed meat around?
I don’t understand why you don’t personally make all of the roofing supplies that you use. Lol.

Here's an idea! Instead of teaching our youth about "equity" and brainwashing them with stupid critical race theory cult think, let's teach our youth how to be self reliant, to grow food at home. That they don't need to set the a/c to 70 in the summer or 72 in the winter. Let's teach them to extend the life of a car and to drive a car until 3 or 400,000 miles so we can stop producing so many vehicles. No? Would that inconvenient? Does a real environmentalist read and study about climate change or do they act? I act! You guys come on a board and complain about climate change. Big difference even though you can't admit it!

That’s a bit of a rant.

Let’s look at this a different way. Instead of telling everyone how raising quail will be the key to self-sufficiency, can you tell me exactly what it is you fear you’ll be forced to change in your life if the US was to enact some sorts of legislation that focused on climate change?
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Thread for discussing climate change

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He literally didn’t watch the cartoon. -_-

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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