Giuliani reveals under oath no evidence for stolen election.

[Gunnar]

The saddest part of it is that I don't think many of them really like Trump. They are terrified of losing the support of his fanatical, cult-like base whom Trump has successfully deluded into thinking he can do no wrong.

Cult-like?

Just a small quibble with your post: the Trump base is not cult-like. It is not similar to a cult. It is the very definition of a cult. Potential cult leaders should look at the Trump cult as a template. The dumber and more outrageous the crap that comes out of the leader's mouth, the better for attracting morons.

No rational person can believe his B.S.. Trump dopes are willing victims in one of the dumbest scams ever executed. Only idiots trust anything Trump says. If that's not a cult, then cults don't exist.

In my defense I can only ask, what is more cult-like than an actual, literal cult? But yes, I admit that I was guilty of at least somewhat understating the case by appending the word "like" to the word "cult" in my post.

[Gunnar]

This is a perfectly tidy explanation of their game plan. They, of course, say the same thing about the Left so perhaps they justify their own impropriety because it’s just fire versus fire at this point in their minds.

- Doc

It's so sad how there seems to be so many people whose knowledge of modern history is deficient enough that they fail to recognize that this game plan comes directly from the playbook of would be tyrants like Hitler and his henchman, Goebbels. Namely poison the well of honest journalism by insisting from the outset that the mainstream, free press is the enemy of the people, to preempt attempts by honest journalists to expose the lies they knew they would have to depend on to gain and maintain their tyrannical position and designs.

[Some Schmo]

In my defense I can only ask, what is more cult-like than an actual, literal cult?

Well, I'm just saying that "cult-like" makes it sound like it's not a cult. But you make a compelling point. Cults will act cult-like.

But yes, I admit that I was guilty of at least somewhat understating the case by appending the word "like" to the word "cult" in my post.

Meh... I was mostly looking for an excuse to strike up a conversation with you.

[ceeboo]

Gad - I won't make a really big deal about this but why did you post this here - on this thread - a thread I wasn't participating in? Why wouldn't you have posted something about me, to me, in the discussion we were having on another thread? in my opinion, this is a little shady, at best.

From another thread where I rightly called Rush Limbaugh one of the most evil human beings to have lived

We certainly have a difference of opinion, Gad.

It is my opinion that you were not right then and you continue to be not right now. Calling Rush "one of the most evil human beings to have lived" is something that comes from the mouth of a lunatic (As I told you on the other thread) because it is lunacy. In addition, your comparison with Bundy and Hitler to Rush is also an insane claim (which I told you on the other thread too) because it is an insane claim.

It's possible his quibble was with "most evil". But I think Ceeboo's dispute runs deeper than objecting to hyperbole. He's free to correct me if I'm wrong

You suggest "I was objecting to hyperbole?" Nonsense! You made the ridiculous statements and now you're trying to runaway from your statements by attempting to cover them in a mask of hyperbole? Ridiculous!

If you were to take 100 people (adults with a fair amount of reason skills and and are capable of independent thought) I would be willing to bet my left ear that at least 97 of them would reject your conveniently suggested hyperbole nonsense (and I adore my left ear)

but my best guess is that what he really meant was far from being "most evil" or even "evil", there is something inherently good in the opinion of any free American expressing an opinion.

Your "best guess" about me here reminds me of your "assumptions" about me on the other thread suggesting that I rejected climate change - in a thread where I clearly stated (3 separate times - 2 of the 3 being posts directed at you) that I do not reject climate change - So, given that, you ought to give you some great pause concerning your "best guess" as well as how much confidence you place in your "best guess."

Concerning your prophetic "what Ceeboo really meant to say" (Another ridiculous statement from you! Ceeboo says what he means to say) - I never suggested that "there is something inherently good in the opinion of any free American expressing an opinion." - You said that on my behalf which, at the very least is poor form, at worst..........

The free Americans expressing opinions was about Rush and I made that statement in context because you compared Rush to Hitler and Bundy and because you stated "Rush was one of the most evil human beings to have ever lived."

Who, exactly, are you proposing ought to not have the freedom to express their opinions in this country? And are you the individual who determines who has this freedom and who doesn't? How about Tucker? Don Lemon? Other radio show personalities? Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? Bill Maher? Pelosi? Hannity? Maxine Waters? Maddow? Joy Reid? Al Sharpton? Ted Cruz? Robert Dinero? Gutfeld? The people on The View? Howard Stern? Opinion columnists at the NY times? Joe Biden? How about You, do you get this freedom? How about me?

From your view, Is this freedom provided for only the people who see the world like you do? - believe like you do? - Have the same opinions as you do? Carful, the answers to these questions will, no doubt, have serious impact to potentially very slippery slopes on a road like the one we could be traveling on here.

[Gadianton]

Gad - I won't make a really big deal about this but why did you post this here - on this thread - a thread I wasn't participating in? Why wouldn't you have posted something about me, to me, in the discussion we were having on another thread?

Because while pointing out Rush's significance to climate change denial I feel was on-topic for that thread, I derailed the thread by getting into moral culpability. I think the topic of moral culpability for pundits like Rush and also for politicians who outright lie, make up, or spread the most obvious of misinformation to their constituents to gain popularity and power is on topic for this thread.

In addition, your comparison with Bundy and Hitler to Rush is also an insane claim

First of all, to put your mind at ease, I'm not backing down from the claim. I still claim exactly that. If I've failed to guess your reasoning, then please, explain to me why I am wrong? Why is Rush Limbaugh not one of the most vile humans to have ever lived? You suggested we ask 97 people. If you were to have asked 97 people in Nazi Germany if Hitler was the most vile human to have lived what would they have told you? If I were to ask the 97 people you imagine I should ask about Rush, what would be their reasoning? If they're all like you, they'll tell me to ask 97 more people. Every member of the crowd looking to the center of the crowd for direction is a great help for regimes like Hitler's to come into power. You've said I'm insane for my belief while at the same time, you claimed not to know much about what Rush has said. If you don't anything about Rush, then how can you be so certain I'm that far off? What's your reasoning? What's the reasoning of the 97 people we should ask?

Who, exactly, are you proposing ought to not have the freedom to express their opinions in this country? And are you the individual who determines who has this freedom and who doesn't? How about Tucker? Don Lemon?

I don't think you've read what I wrote. I'm decoupling the question of who should be allowed to speak from the morality of the speaker.

I apologize to Chap as he has a thread for this, and maybe I'll move for a second time, but for now, consider the recent news item with Alex Jones, a prodigy of Limbaugh's. There are plenty of sources for this, I'll pull from Vice:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvz9m4/ ... ts-lawsuit

On December 14, 2012, Adam Lanza, 20, murdered 20 children, six teachers, and his own mother before killing himself. In the years since, however, Jones has referred to the massacre as a “total hoax” and a “false flag” operation perpetrated by “crisis actors.”

Is Alex Jones vile or isn't he, for his protracted on-air claims that have led to real-life persecution of Sandy Hook victims families? Assume for the sake of this question that Vice's summary is correct. I'm not asking if he should be allowed to continue to make his claims, I'm asking if he's vile for making them.

[Alf'Omega]

I hate using the word evil because it implies something religious in the reasoning. I prefer to just refer to such people as human garbage, and point out that the world is a better place without them. Rush is one of the primary reasons a wedge was driven through the heart of this country since the 90's, and it is why uneducated morons like Atlantic Mike thinks he can talk informatively on crucial complex matters. Because Rush used to brag about how he became an intellectual after dropping out of community college, saying he only made $18,000/year working warehouse before he got hired on by some radio outlet to rant his stupidity. He inspired other college drop outs to do likewise (i.e. Glen Beck, Sean Hannity). He taught idiots in America that their opinions could become more valid if they were based in lies, outrage and bigotry. One of the last dumbass things Rush left us before his death, was teaching his sheeple that there were 19 different coronaviruses, which is why, he says, we call the most recent one COVID-19!

I remember sometime around 1995 when I was constantly listening to him rant for three hours a day, that he promoted a book, I forget the name. But the entire purpose of the book was to teach people to use big words so they could appear educated when they're not. Everything about this man was a fraud, but his listeners loved him because they were bored at work and his was the only voice on talk radio. Even if you disagreed with him, three hours of constant bombardment of his voice has subliminal effects.

[Chap]

Is Alex Jones vile or isn't he, for his protracted on-air claims that have led to real-life persecution of Sandy Hook victims families?

Yup. I doubt if anyone on this board will disagree that his baseless and despicable claims were simply made to boost his audience figures, without even a smidgeon of remorse for the way he was making the suffering of the bereaved parents even worse than they could ever have imagined it might be. Think: your kids are shot dead at school, then you get crazies screaming death threats at you because you said that your kids were shot dead at school. And Jones was the guy who lit the fire and poured on petrol, just to get a quick buck.

I'm not asking if he should be allowed to continue to make his claims,

No, but guess what? That's how they are going to spin it. Let's wait and see.

[Some Schmo]

You've said I'm insane for my belief while at the same time, you claimed not to know much about what Rush has said. If you don't anything about Rush, then how can you be so certain I'm that far off? What's your reasoning?

You should take the question seriously, ceeboo. Why are you so adamantly arguing on Limbaugh's behalf if you haven't heard much of what he's said?

I have heard some of what he's said, enough to know that if evil exists, he was the embodiment of it. I once heard him argue that only Democrats make a big deal about consent (so apparently, he's on the side of rape). He was an ignorant pill head.

If he wasn't a complete piece of crap, nobody is.

[canpakes]

So Rush is evil because of something stupid that Jones said?

mmmmmkaaaaay, Gad. Do you feel better now?

Rush is not evil because of a filthy and deranged comment that Jones said.
Rush is hated because his listeners were collectively more populist than elitist, ...

For our resident Crusader Against Bigotry:

Iowa’s Cedar Rapids Gazette reported in 1990 that Limbaugh’s “AIDS Update,” a recurring segment in which he made jokes about a disease that had killed more than 100,000 people in the United States the previous decade, started by playing songs such as “Back in the Saddle Again,” “Kiss Him Goodbye,” “I Know I’ll Never Love This Way Again,” and “Looking for Love in All the Wrong Places.”
...
Limbaugh, for instance, had another segment that used former Congressman Barney Frank, a prominent gay politician, as fodder. That segment featured the song “My Boy Lollipop” as slurping sounds played in the background. Limbaugh also spread the unfounded claim that gay men practiced “gerbilling” (you can read more about the unfounded urban legend here) and once said, according to James Retter’s book “The Anatomy of a Scandal,” that gay men “deserved their fate.”

... wait! There's more ...

Limbaugh has long used his talk radio show to disparage the LGBTQ community, including arguing in 2013 that if same-sex marriage was legalized, then “who’s to say you cannot have sex with a child”:

In 2019, Limbaugh claimed that “the entire homosexual community is going to become pro-life” if it's “discovered that homosexuality is genetic.”

In 2017, Limbaugh used an anti-trans slur while saying that Republicans should not “provide a comforting atmosphere for the tranny community and the gay community.”

In 2016, Limbaugh claimed that the Iowa LGBT Rural Summit was an attempt to “convince lesbians to become farmers” in order to “bust up one of the last geographically conservative regions in the country.”

In 2016, Limbaugh claimed that Washington state schools’ trans-inclusive curriculum would be “teaching transgenderism to kindergartners” as a “recruitment” tactic.

That same year, Limbaugh claimed that LGBTQ rights are “leading to the erosion of private property” and that “the federal government is going to have to come in and take over everything in order to guarantee civil rights.”

That same year, Limbaugh suggested that Roman Catholic Church sexual abuse cases in Boston were a result of “the gay infiltration of the Catholic Church.”

After the U.S. military lifted began to allow trans people to serve openly in the military in 2016, Limbaugh mocked trans soldiers by saying they had an “add-a-dick-to-me procedure.”

In 2015, Limbaugh called transgender people mentally ill and said that gender-affirming health care is “treating mental illness with mental illness.”

That same year, defending then-Indiana Gov. Mike Pence signing the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, Limbaugh suggested that marriage equality would lead to bestiality, asking, “What happens if you love your dog?”

In 2014, Limbaugh falsely claimed that the murder of Matthew Shepard was not a hate crime.

In 2013, according to Politico, Limbaugh said there was “a movement to normalize pedophilia” and tied it to same-sex marriage.

Later that year, Limbaugh said that conservatives are terrified of criticizing the LGBTQ community because of its “militant political gay element.”

According to LGBTQ Nation, Limbaugh spent years deriding people with HIV and AIDS and denounced federal spending on preventing the diseases’ spread because there was no “evidence that it was spreading to the heterosexual community, not sexually anyway.”

[ceeboo]

Gad - The total number of people is 100 (not 97 as you kept repeating above) - Meaning, 97 out of the possible 100 would have rejected your recent shift that suggested you were just using hyperbole.

Hey Schmo

Why are you so adamantly arguing on Limbaugh's behalf

I wasn't arguing on Limbaugh's behalf - I was challenging the statements that Limbaugh was one of the most evil people to have lived and that Limbaugh was being compared to Bundy/Hitler. I would have said the same for any talk radio show person - like Howard Stern or Bill Maher - My opinion is that Stern/Maher are complete idiots but I would never, not in a million years, suggest that Stern/Maher were one of the most evil people to have lived - Nor would I compare Stern or Maher to Hitler/Bundy - Because that would also be insane to do such a thing.

Truth be told, I think what is happening on this thread, as is the case on many threads, is that this is all about politics/ideologies (Rush was on the right) because if it wasn't all just about politics/ideologies, we might expect to actually see a bit of balance - at least some level of push back from anyone other than me - a hint that would suggest that disgusting, divisive and bigoted things have been said - are currently said - and probably will continue to be said from all kinds of people from all over the political spectrum.

if you haven't heard much of what he's said?

I know he was a very popular conservative talk show host and I know that when he died, this board had a thread that was celebrating his death (I also remember making a single post in said thread that expressed my personal opinion about the parade and celebration that was taking place. I think I was the only voice in that thread that challenged the party (dancing, drinks and music) that was taking place - kind of like I might be the only voice here.

So, other than Rush, who else belongs on this list of the most evil people to have lived? Or' if you would prefer, who else is comparable to Hitler/Bundy?