The Most Christlike Evangelicals

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Gunnar
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The Most Christlike Evangelicals

Post by Gunnar »

There is nothing about being a Christian or even an Evangelical that necessarily implies that one must be a hard right conservative, and certainly not a Trump supporter. In fact, I can think of few things that are more antithetical to the teachings attributed to Jesus Christ than Trumpism or what passes today for hard right conservatism.

Why Some White Evangelicals Are Rethinking Their Politics l FiveThirtyEight

The individuals featured in the provided link, IMHO, understand what Christ's teachings were really about better than the majority of Evangelicals who now so slavishly and fanatically support Trump.
White evangelicals are often seen as a solidly Republican voting bloc. In the 2020 election, 84 percent of them voted for Donald Trump. In fact, according to the Pew Research Center, many of Trump’s supporters began identifying as evangelical during his presidency.

But white evangelicals aren’t a monolith. In our first episode of Political Outliers, meet two devout evangelicals who were raised in conservative households, but are now self-proclaimed “progressives.” They both say that their political views became more liberal as they immersed themselves deeper into their faith.
Trenton Lucas, one of the commenters to the above video wrote:
The thing is, the average evangelical doesn’t actually know much about evangelical theology. They just seek out leaders who reinforce their preconceived political views. It’s really telling that both of these gentlemen changed their political views in response to actually studying their own theology.
The prominent climate scientist, Katherine Hayhoe, one of the most effective proponents of acknowledging the reality and dangers of man caused climate change and working to mitigate it, is also a devout Evangelical.
WHO I AM
I’m an atmospheric scientist. I study climate change, one of the most pressing issues we face today.

I don’t accept global warming on faith: I crunch the data, I analyze the models, I help engineers and city managers and ecologists quantify the impacts.

The data tells us the planet is warming; the science is clear that humans are responsible; the impacts we’re seeing today are already serious; and our future is in our hands. As John Holdren once said, “We basically have three choices: mitigation, adaptation, and suffering. We’re going to do some of each. The question is what the mix is going to be. The more mitigation we do, the less adaptation will be required, and the less suffering there will be.”

WHAT I DO
I began my career with a B.Sc. in physics and astronomy from the University of Toronto. My first published papers were in the field of observational astronomy, on variable stars and galaxy clustering around quasars. As I was finishing my degree, I took a class in climate science with Danny Harvey, who had previously been a postdoc at NCAR with Steve Schneider, and that class completely shocked me – and ended up changing my life. I didn’t realize climate science was based on the exact same basic physics – thermodynamics, non-linear fluid dynamics, and radiative transfer – I’d been learning in astrophysics. And I definitely didn’t realize that climate change wasn’t just an environmental issue – it’s a threat multiplier. It takes the most serious humanitarian issues confronting climate change today – hunger, poverty, lack of access to clean water, injustice, refugee crises and more – and it makes them worse. How could I not do everything I could to help fix this huge global challenge?

I switched gears and headed to the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign to work on a M.S. in atmospheric science with Don Wuebbles, a climate scientist well known for his leadership in policy-relevant science. Working with Don, my masters research focused on understanding human and natural sources of methane, and quantifying the contribution of methane and other non-CO2 greenhouse gases to emission reduction targets. After participating in a climate change assessment for the Great Lakes, I recognized the need for high-resolution climate projections to integrate into impact studies in areas ranging from ecosystems to energy. For my Ph.D., I refocused my research to survey and compare a broad range of the statistical downscaling methods often used to generate these projections: research that now feeds directly into my contribution to the World Meteorological Organization’s Coordinated Regional Downscaling Experiment for Empirical Statistical Downscaling, or WMO CORDEX-ESD. There’s no one like a scientist for generating long unpronounceable acronyms, is there?

To date, my work has resulted in over 125 peer-reviewed papers, abstracts, and other publications and many key reports including the U.S. Global Change Research Program’s Second National Climate Assessment; the U.S. National Academy of Science report, Climate Stabilization Targets: Emissions, Concentrations, and Impacts over Decades to Millennia; and the 2014 Third National Climate Assessment. In addition to these reports, I have led climate impact assessments for a broad cross-section of cities and regions, from Chicago to California and the U.S. Northeast. The findings of these studies have been presented before Congress, highlighted in briefings to state and federal agencies, and used as input to future planning by communities, states, and regions across the country.

Today, I am the Chief Scientist for The Nature Conservancy and I am also a Paul Whitfield Horn Distinguished Professor and the Political Science Endowed Chair in Public Policy and Public Law in the Department of Political Science at Texas Tech University, where I am also an associate in the Public Health program of the Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences. I am also a principal investigator for the Department of Interior’s South-Central Climate Adaptation Science Center and the National Science Foundation’s Global Infrastructure Climate Network. My research currently focuses on establishing a scientific basis for assessing the regional to local-scale impacts of climate change on human systems and the natural environment. To this end, I analyze observations, compare future scenarios, evaluate global and regional climate models, build and assess statistical downscaling models, and constantly strive to develop better ways of translating climate projections into information relevant to agriculture, ecosystems, energy, infrastructure, public health, and water resources.
Obviously, one doesn't necessarily have to be anti-science, pro-Trump, or even a hard right conservative, to be a devout Christian, or even an Evangelical. President Jimmy Carter, whom I consider to be one of the most unfairly underrated Presidents during my lifetime, was also a devout Evangelical.
Last edited by Gunnar on Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
Gunnar
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Re: The Most Christlike Evangelicals

Post by Gunnar »

More on the Evangelical Scientist, Katherine Hayhoe:
In 2019, Dr. Hayhoe was named to Foreign Policy's list of 100 Global Thinkers for the second time and received the United Nations Environment Programme's flagship award, being named Champion of the Earth in the category of Science and Innovation.

PBS Digital Series, Global Weirding

TEDx talk: What if Climate Change is Real?

Bill Moyers: Climate Change Faith and Fact.

AAAS What We Know:

Dr. Katharine Hayhoe Youtube channel:
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: The Most Christlike Evangelicals

Post by Jersey Girl »

Gunnar wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:52 pm


The individuals featured in the provided link, IMHO, understand what Christ's teachings were really about better than the majority of Evangelicals who now so slavishly and fanatically support Trump.
Trenton Lucas, one of the commenters to the above video wrote:
The thing is, the average evangelical doesn’t actually know much about evangelical theology. They just seek out leaders who reinforce their preconceived political views. It’s really telling that both of these gentlemen changed their political views in response to actually studying their own theology.

Yes, and I could quote passages from scripture (as I am sure many here could) that warn against such things as putting faith in man, avoiding idolatry, and amassing wealth...that sort of thing. I suppose even teaching alternative doctrines that are contrary to the teachings of Christ.
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Re: The Most Christlike Evangelicals

Post by drumdude »

AtlanticMike and other right wing religious folks only care about using Christianity as a weapon to shield and spread their bigoted ideas.

“The Bible says marriage is man and woman”

“The Bible says no abortion”

“The Bible says stone adulterers” oh well forget that one! You’d lose most religious leaders and a good number of the congregations!
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Jersey Girl
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Re: The Most Christlike Evangelicals

Post by Jersey Girl »

drumdude wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:58 pm
AtlanticMike and other right wing religious folks only care about using Christianity as a weapon to shield and spread their bigoted ideas.

“The Bible says marriage is man and woman”

“The Bible says no abortion”

“The Bible says stone adulterers” oh well forget that one! You’d lose most religious leaders and a good number of the congregations!
The Bible says to avoid vain babblings.

Well, the list is long...
LIGHT HAS A NAME

We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

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Some Schmo
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Re: The Most Christlike Evangelicals

Post by Some Schmo »

The most egregious "sin" on the part of any religious denomination that supports Trump is the rationalizing away of his behavior. This idea that god picks the absolute worst men on earth to carry out his plans has got to be one of the dumbest and most insidious ideas over to pollute humankind's minds.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

The god idea is popular with desperate people.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: The Most Christlike Evangelicals

Post by Jersey Girl »

Some Schmo wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:20 pm
The most egregious "sin" on the part of any religious denomination that supports Trump is the rationalizing away of his behavior. This idea that god picks the absolute worst men on earth to carry out his plans has got to be one of the dumbest and most insidious ideas over to pollute humankind's minds.
I can't disagree with that. If I go with the rationale that God picks the worst men to carry out his plans, I would have to extend that idea to...and, in the process, He changes them.

Refiner's fire. Trump has had many opportunities to shift course and yet he remains corrupt, greedy, self serving, and arrogant.

So yeah. Those aren't what we call the fruits of the spirit.
LIGHT HAS A NAME

We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

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Jersey Girl
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Re: The Most Christlike Evangelicals

Post by Jersey Girl »

Just posting this as a reminder and basis for comparison. KJV because most of us were raised up on it. Emphasis mine.

Galatians 5
King James Version

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
LIGHT HAS A NAME

We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
Gunnar
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Re: The Most Christlike Evangelicals

Post by Gunnar »

Some Schmo wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:20 pm
The most egregious "sin" on the part of any religious denomination that supports Trump is the rationalizing away of his behavior. This idea that god picks the absolute worst men on earth to carry out his plans has got to be one of the dumbest and most insidious ideas over to pollute humankind's minds.
Yes; it will never cease to boggle my mind how any professing to be followers of the teachings attributed to Jesus Christ in their Bibles can fail to see how morally bankrupt Trump and his actions are. It appears that few of them really spend much time reading or trying to understand their Bibles. Certainly Trump doesn't!
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: The Most Christlike Evangelicals

Post by Atlanticmike »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:46 pm
Just posting this as a reminder and basis for comparison. KJV because most of us were raised up on it. Emphasis mine.

Galatians 5
King James Version

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Mormons are the only ones who can interpret the Bible correctly. You've been deceived.
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