I Don't Believe You

[Gunnar]

I've gotten to the point where I just don't believe people really care about whatever they are criticizing if they aren't moved by facts. In fact, I find it hard to believe the most rabid right-wing extremists are concerned about anything because they never back up their assertions, and will continue making them even after they've been debunked. I think they just like to argue because.. I don't know... they're assholes? Or maybe it's just a warped agenda. Who knows?

We have countless examples of GOP leaders doing things the right has enjoyed whining about for years, but they don't care. It's only a concern to them if it's a Democrat, and even then, I don't think they're concerned. They will whine about it because they know people who argue in good faith might think it's a concern.

A person with a legitimate concern about something will educate themselves on that thing, and apply that concern in all cases, no matter who or what. They won't wail and moan about it interminably in the face of facts that show their concern to be unfounded. They don't argue in bad faith. They don't keep making the same bad arguments over and over.

Unless, ya know, they're brain damaged in some fundamental way and can't help their inferior thought processes.

Why should we listen to and take seriously any concern from someone like this?

tl;dr: If you aren't moved by facts, I'm going to assume you don't have any to offer.

I absolutely agree. There are at least three regulars on this forum of late who couldn't care less what the facts are if they don't coincide with what they are determined to believe. They incessantly repeat the same misinformation over and over again no matter how often and convincingly or in how many ways it is debunked. They might just as well be flat-earthers.

[Gadianton]

In fact, I find it hard to believe the most rabid right-wing extremists are concerned about anything because they never back up their assertions

I think there are two strands weaving together.

Strand 1 is libertarianism unhinged. EA made me take this political test a long time ago and it said I was libertarian. Good enough for me. Live and let live + let the market do its thing. Not sure I identified with any 'libertarian' politicians, but in principle. Well, the needle seems to have moved from 'give the individual a break', to 'the individual is supreme'; any institution of authority, namely governments and science, are corrupt and untrustworthy. Initially, I noticed this change in economics; the "Chicago School" was dead and this loose collection of non-experts calling themselves "Austrians" gaining tractions -- free market ideologues who don't know anything rather than real students of markets.

Actually that's not entirely true. I initially noticed the change in the characters from the world of professional wrestling, as they evolved from heroes to anti-heroes. Hulk Hogan was principled: eat your vitamins and say your prayers. Stone Cold Steve Austin: drink beer and say whatever you want. The good guys became self-righteous jerks and the bad guys irreverent and cool.

Strand 2 is the Internet, social media, email and all that. Strand 2 is the ultimate empowerment of the individual. No longer does an institution of power construct the narrative and broadcast to the masses, but anybody can come up with something catchy and go viral. Individual people other than rock stars, finally, have the chance to construct the narrative for society and ultimately for the leaders -- if the leaders want to get votes. The number one slogan of all pseudoscience and conspiracy programming on Youtube is "decide for yourself". The subtext is vote for what you like. If you don't like the idea of global warming, just say it isn't real. Vote with your feet. If the idea that the world is a simulation sounds appealing, think for yourself and decide. What lends a person shock value or importance without effort will get voted for most often. That isn't to say that all "liberals" have deeply considered the issues and are interested in truth.

I think it goes without saying that as these strands twist together, the right isn't so much reacting against actual government and actual liberals, but fictions of government and liberals they've created for themselves.

[Cultellus]

I think it goes without saying that as these strands twist together, the right isn't so much reacting against actual government and actual liberals, but fictions of government and liberals they've created for themselves.

I think it goes without saying that as these strands twist together, the left isn't so much reacting against actual people, but fictions of people they've created for themselves.

[Gunnar]

[ X ] Warped Agenda.

There's plenty of that going on around here. Me, I've always enjoyed having my thinking challenged and I don't shy away from asking questions. Pretty sure that is evident.

To be sure. You are one of most admirable, level headed and exemplary participants here. I have often learned from you and had my awareness beneficially expanded by your contributions, and even had my mind changed for the better on occasion because of you.

[Gadianton]

I think it goes without saying that as these strands twist together, the left isn't so much reacting against actual people, but fictions of people they've created for themselves.

Have you ever received a political email from a left-wing friend or family member?

that's what I thought, neither have I.

I've been receiving them from the people in my life on the right since my first email account in 1997 or so.

[canpakes]

And, when twitfuck asshats carry on and call the populists rapists, murderers, inbreeds and fascists - when they are not - the needle moves.

Later that day … and in the same thread …

When your source is a single internet poster...... it makes sense to demonize an entire population. Makes total sense.

[Gunnar]

In fact, I find it hard to believe the most rabid right-wing extremists are concerned about anything because they never back up their assertions

I think there are two strands weaving together.

Strand 1 is libertarianism unhinged. EA made me take this political test a long time ago and it said I was libertarian. Good enough for me. Live and let live + let the market do its thing. Not sure I identified with any 'libertarian' politicians, but in principle. Well, the needle seems to have moved from 'give the individual a break', to 'the individual is supreme'; any institution of authority, namely governments and science, are corrupt and untrustworthy. Initially, I noticed this change in economics; the "Chicago School" was dead and this loose collection of non-experts calling themselves "Austrians" gaining tractions -- free market ideologues who don't know anything rather than real students of markets.

Actually that's not entirely true. I initially noticed the change in the characters from the world of professional wrestling, as they evolved from heroes to anti-heroes. Hulk Hogan was principled: eat your vitamins and say your prayers. Stone Cold Steve Austin: drink beer and say whatever you want. The good guys became self-righteous jerks and the bad guys irreverent and cool.

Strand 2 is the Internet, social media, email and all that. Strand 2 is the ultimate empowerment of the individual. No longer does an institution of power construct the narrative and broadcast to the masses, but anybody can come up with something catchy and go viral. Individual people other than rock stars, finally, have the chance to construct the narrative for society and ultimately for the leaders -- if the leaders want to get votes. The number one slogan of all pseudoscience and conspiracy programming on Youtube is "decide for yourself". The subtext is vote for what you like. If you don't like the idea of global warming, just say it isn't real. Vote with your feet. If the idea that the world is a simulation sounds appealing, think for yourself and decide. What lends a person shock value or importance without effort will get voted for most often. That isn't to say that all "liberals" have deeply considered the issues and are interested in truth.

I think it goes without saying that as these strands twist together, the right isn't so much reacting against actual government and actual liberals, but fictions of government and liberals they've created for themselves.

I regard you as one of the treasures of this forum. Your insights always make me think and even, on occasion, reconsider my own position. You're one of the most often unfairly maligned by some of the trolls we have recently acquired.

[Some Schmo]

I think there are two strands weaving together.

Strand 1 is libertarianism unhinged. EA made me take this political test a long time ago and it said I was libertarian. Good enough for me. Live and let live + let the market do its thing. Not sure I identified with any 'libertarian' politicians, but in principle. Well, the needle seems to have moved from 'give the individual a break', to 'the individual is supreme'; any institution of authority, namely governments and science, are corrupt and untrustworthy. Initially, I noticed this change in economics; the "Chicago School" was dead and this loose collection of non-experts calling themselves "Austrians" gaining tractions -- free market ideologues who don't know anything rather than real students of markets.

Actually that's not entirely true. I initially noticed the change in the characters from the world of professional wrestling, as they evolved from heroes to anti-heroes. Hulk Hogan was principled: eat your vitamins and say your prayers. Stone Cold Steve Austin: drink beer and say whatever you want. The good guys became self-righteous jerks and the bad guys irreverent and cool.

Strand 2 is the Internet, social media, email and all that. Strand 2 is the ultimate empowerment of the individual. No longer does an institution of power construct the narrative and broadcast to the masses, but anybody can come up with something catchy and go viral. Individual people other than rock stars, finally, have the chance to construct the narrative for society and ultimately for the leaders -- if the leaders want to get votes. The number one slogan of all pseudoscience and conspiracy programming on Youtube is "decide for yourself". The subtext is vote for what you like. If you don't like the idea of global warming, just say it isn't real. Vote with your feet. If the idea that the world is a simulation sounds appealing, think for yourself and decide. What lends a person shock value or importance without effort will get voted for most often. That isn't to say that all "liberals" have deeply considered the issues and are interested in truth.

I think it goes without saying that as these strands twist together, the right isn't so much reacting against actual government and actual liberals, but fictions of government and liberals they've created for themselves.

I regard you as one of the treasures of this forum. Your insights always make me think and even, on occasion, reconsider my own position. You're one of the most often unfairly maligned by some of the trolls we have recently acquired.

Truth.

[Cultellus]

This is the official cabal thread.

All you victims are right here commiserating.

[Cultellus]

Have you ever received a political email from a left-wing friend or family member?

I do not categorize my friends like you do with your so-called friends.

But the answer to your question is yes. Many many many emails from democrat or left-voting friends. Many. And we discuss things. By the way, what makes you so sure I am not left of center? Just because I do not talk bigot like you and the cabal, or laugh at bigot jokes, does not identify my politics and ideologies.