Uh, Alec Baldwin just shot and killed someone

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 6759
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:51 am
Location: In my head

Re: Uh, Alec Baldwin just shot and killed someone

Post by Jersey Girl »

Say goodbye to your passport, Alec.
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
User avatar
Dr. Sunstoned
CTR B
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:59 am

Re: Uh, Alec Baldwin just shot and killed someone

Post by Dr. Sunstoned »

I own several first generation Colt (model 1873) Peacemakers. These guns are single actions, which means the hammer has to be pulled back before the gun can be fired. The hammer will not fall unless the trigger is depressed. Alec had to have pulled the trigger. I am sure the one Baldwin was using was a replica, but it would function the same.
Marcus
God
Posts: 4865
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:44 pm

Re: Uh, Alec Baldwin just shot and killed someone

Post by Marcus »

Dr. Sunstoned wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:28 am
I own several first generation Colt (model 1873) Peacemakers. These guns are single actions, which means the hammer has to be pulled back before the gun can be fired. The hammer will not fall unless the trigger is depressed. Alec had to have pulled the trigger. I am sure the one Baldwin was using was a replica, but it would function the same.
If the hammer is pulled back but NOT cocked (which I understand as engaging that catch that holds it in a cocked position) can it be released, and cause a round to be fired?
Marcus
God
Posts: 4865
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:44 pm

Re: Uh, Alec Baldwin just shot and killed someone

Post by Marcus »

I think this answers my question

The Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office released a trove of evidence in the case on Monday, which provided deeper insight into how the tragedy unfolded. Video from the release shows Baldwin rehearsing the scene where he shot Hutchins. The office told The Reload the footage does not include the fatal shot.

However, it does provide critical information on how the negligent discharge likely happened. The video shows Baldwin repeatedly drawing his gun while rehearsing a scene. It shows Baldwin clearly had his finger on the revolver’s trigger as he practiced the draw. In the last take of the video, he can be seen pulling the hammer back and releasing it while he has his finger on the trigger. The hammer clearly falls forward after being released.

As I said back in December, this was always the most likely scenario to explain how the gun fired. On a single-action revolver like the one Baldwin used, the hammer will catch on a series of sears when pulled back. However, depressing the trigger while pulling the hammer back will cause it to bypass those sears. If pulled back far enough before being released while the trigger is depressed, it could cause a live round in the cylinder to fire.

Baldwin has claimed he “didn’t pull the trigger.” However, his description of the shooting makes that hard to believe.

“I cock the gun. I go, ‘Can you see that? Can you see that? Can you see that?’” Baldwin told ABC. “And then I let go of the hammer of the gun, and the gun goes off. I let go of the hammer of the gun, the gun goes off.”

This is not possible without a severe mechanical defect in the gun or, more likely, the trigger being depressed. While it’s possible Baldwin kept his finger off the trigger during the shot, the video strongly suggests it’s unlikely. He had his finger on the trigger in these takes. He probably did during the final shot as well.

Baldwin may believe that, while his finger was on the trigger, he didn’t “pull” it. But it does not take much force to keep the trigger on a single-action revolver depressed enough to drop the sears which would otherwise catch a cocked hammer from engaging. That’s exactly what can be seen at the end of the rehearsal video.

Of course, this is only one part of the equation for what went horribly wrong on that set.

The presence of live ammunition on set, the failure of anyone who handled the gun to properly check whether it was unloaded, and the decision to film a shot with crew in the firing line of a real gun all contributed to the disaster. Multiple people had to fail in their obligation to ensure the production was safe for this to happen. It was never just one person making one mistake.

And complacency, as is often the case with negligent discharges, was at the core of what went wrong.

https://thereload.com/analysis-video-sh ... ehearsals/
[bolding added]
User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 6759
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:51 am
Location: In my head

Re: Uh, Alec Baldwin just shot and killed someone

Post by Jersey Girl »

This is what we've officially got so far...Statement of Probable Cause in the case. Doc is 10 pages or I'd copy it and put it right here.


https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... -statement
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
User avatar
Physics Guy
God
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:40 am
Location: on the battlefield of life

Re: Uh, Alec Baldwin just shot and killed someone

Post by Physics Guy »

I once fired a gun accidentally. It was only a blank round, on a military training exercise, and I was deliberately pointing the weapon straight into a pile of dirt, so I wasn't going to hurt anyone. But I was trying to make the weapon safe so that it would not fire, as I had just been ordered to do. What I did actually made the weapon fire.

It was a kind of weapon I had never used before, and on which I hadn't been trained. The fact that I was nonetheless carrying it, even on a training exercise with blank ammunition, was a serious failure in the training system. It was the reserves and I had missed a course through a paperwork screw-up that wasn't my fault, so they put me through onto the next course so I wouldn't lose my summer job. Bad accidents can happen that way. I got in serious trouble at the time, and rightly so since however the situation had happened I was the one who committed the accidental discharge, but I'm really glad that was all that happened.

Firearms are an old and complex technology with many different designs. They don't all work the same way. What would be safely closing the bolt on an empty chamber, in a rifle that fires from a closed bolt, will discharge a sub-machine gun that fires from an open bolt. What might be safely releasing the hammer on one kind of revolver will fire another kind.

If Baldwin snoozed through a safety course, that inattention may well have killed Halyna Hutchins.
I was a teenager before it was cool.
User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 6759
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:51 am
Location: In my head

Re: Uh, Alec Baldwin just shot and killed someone

Post by Jersey Girl »

Bodycam Released in Alec Baldwin Set Shooting
https://youtu.be/cS6DdZpkE14?t=97

Time stamped
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
User avatar
Dr. Sunstoned
CTR B
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:59 am

Re: Uh, Alec Baldwin just shot and killed someone

Post by Dr. Sunstoned »

Marcus wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:42 pm
I think this answers my question }

This is true you can draw the hammer back fully and if your finger is holding the trigger back the hammer will fall and the gun will fire. There is little travel in a single action trigger so this is very possible. The hammer would have to be drawn back fully for the cylinder to fully index. In fact, holding the trigger while drawing while cocking and releasing the hammer is call "fanning". It is a Hollywood movie stunt. Few in real life do this because it is hard on the guy and you can't really aim.
User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 6759
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:51 am
Location: In my head

Re: Uh, Alec Baldwin just shot and killed someone

Post by Jersey Girl »

Run time: 3:40

Breaking down Alec Baldwin's new charge in "Rust" shooting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTbIPPKczPo

What's below isn't all covered in the above video. Some of this was gleaned from coverage from other sources. Just adding this here...
  1. The armorer was allegedly responsible for making sure the weapon had no live rounds. But I think it was Baldwin's own account that it was allegedly the AD who told Baldwin that the gun was cold. That's a SAG safety violation.
  2. During questioning by LE Baldwin is heard saying he cocked the gun and it went off.
  3. Examination and testing Aug 2023 determined that Baldwin had to have fired the gun.
  4. So apparently the FBI broke the gun during their examination and they had to piece it together again with new parts. I wonder how that'll fly from the defense side?
In any case, a grand jury has seen fit to indict him with involuntary manslaughter. The armorer's trial begins next month.
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
Post Reply