Uh, Alec Baldwin just shot and killed someone

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I have a hard time believing this:



could kill someone at distance. It’ll be interesting to see what the investigation produces.

- Doc

[Res Ipsa]

I have a hard time believing this:



could kill someone at distance. It’ll be interesting to see what the investigation produces.

- Doc

The Sheriff confirmed that the victims were struck by a bullet. One article mentioned that the Sheriffs were in possession of "dummy bullets." Do you know the difference between a blank and a dummy bullet? If I ever knew, I've long forgotten.

[Jersey Girl]

I have a hard time believing this:



could kill someone at distance. It’ll be interesting to see what the investigation produces.

- Doc

The Sheriff confirmed that the victims were struck by a bullet. One article mentioned that the Sheriffs were in possession of "dummy bullets." Do you know the difference between a blank and a dummy bullet? If I ever knew, I've long forgotten.

Personally, I know nothing at this point. Here's wiki.

A dummy round or drill round is a round that is completely inert, i.e., contains no primer, propellant, or explosive charge.[1] It is used to check weapon function, and for crew training.[2] Dummy ammunition is distinct from "practice" ammunition, which may contain smaller than normal amounts of propellant and/or explosive.[3] For example, the M69 practice hand grenade[4] emits a loud pop and a puff of white smoke.

A dummy is not to be confused with a blank, a cartridge for a firearm that contains propellant and a primer but no bullet or shot; a dummy does not produce an explosive sound like a blank does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_round

[Tinfoilhat]

The Sheriff confirmed that the victims were struck by a bullet. One article mentioned that the Sheriffs were in possession of "dummy bullets." Do you know the difference between a blank and a dummy bullet? If I ever knew, I've long forgotten.

Personally, I know nothing at this point. Here's wiki.

A dummy round or drill round is a round that is completely inert, i.e., contains no primer, propellant, or explosive charge.[1] It is used to check weapon function, and for crew training.[2] Dummy ammunition is distinct from "practice" ammunition, which may contain smaller than normal amounts of propellant and/or explosive.[3] For example, the M69 practice hand grenade[4] emits a loud pop and a puff of white smoke.

A dummy is not to be confused with a blank, a cartridge for a firearm that contains propellant and a primer but no bullet or shot; a dummy does not produce an explosive sound like a blank does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_round

Thank you for this information. I agree, a dummy is a dummy

[Tinfoilhat]

Lem I read your post. Do we have any definition of what constitutes live rounds?

Here is why I ask. I've read or heard that prop guns are configured in such a way as not to accept actual bullets in the sense that I think of as a bullet.

Was this a prop gun?

Are blanks considered a live round?

Is there some other type of projectile that is NOT a blank and NOT considered a live round?
Is there a type of projectile that is NOT a blank and IS considered a live round?

I'm confused about the terminology being used. I do have access to an on-site armorer of my own, but I doubt the terminology that they use is the same as what is being used in the film industry.

If anyone can pull out an answer to my muddled questions, feel free.

I don't know what you're trying to say here

[Res Ipsa]

The Sheriff confirmed that the victims were struck by a bullet. One article mentioned that the Sheriffs were in possession of "dummy bullets." Do you know the difference between a blank and a dummy bullet? If I ever knew, I've long forgotten.

Personally, I know nothing at this point. Here's wiki.

A dummy round or drill round is a round that is completely inert, i.e., contains no primer, propellant, or explosive charge.[1] It is used to check weapon function, and for crew training.[2] Dummy ammunition is distinct from "practice" ammunition, which may contain smaller than normal amounts of propellant and/or explosive.[3] For example, the M69 practice hand grenade[4] emits a loud pop and a puff of white smoke.

A dummy is not to be confused with a blank, a cartridge for a firearm that contains propellant and a primer but no bullet or shot; a dummy does not produce an explosive sound like a blank does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_round

Makes sense. Thanks.

[K Graham]

for what it's worth,

A dummy round or drill round is a round that is completely inert, i.e., contains no primer, propellant, or explosive charge.[1] It is used to check weapon function, and for crew training.[2] Dummy ammunition is distinct from "practice" ammunition, which may contain smaller than normal amounts of propellant and/or explosive.[3] For example, the M69 practice hand grenade[4] emits a loud pop and a puff of white smoke.

A dummy is not to be confused with a blank, a cartridge for a firearm that contains propellant and a primer but no bullet or shot; a dummy does not produce an explosive sound like a blank does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_round

[K Graham]

I remember the death of Brandon Lee.

On March 31, 1993, Lee was filming a scene in The Crow where his character is shot and killed by thugs.[97] In the scene, Lee's character walks into his apartment and discovers his fiancée being beaten and raped, and a thug played by actor Michael Massee fires a Smith & Wesson Model 629 .44 Magnum revolver at Lee's character as he walks into the room.[98]

In the film shoot preceding the fatal scene, the prop gun (which was a real revolver) was loaded with improperly made dummy rounds, improvised from live cartridges that had the powder charges removed by the special effects crew, so in close-ups the revolver would show normal-looking ammunition. However, the crew neglected to remove the primers from the cartridges, and at some point before the fatal event, one of the rounds had been fired. Although there were no powder charges, the energy from the ignited primer was enough to separate the bullet from the casing and push it part-way into the gun barrel, where it got stuck—a dangerous condition known as a squib load. During the fatal scene, which called for the revolver to be fired at Lee from a distance of 3.6–4.5 meters (12–15 ft), the dummy cartridges were replaced with blank rounds, which contained a powder charge and the primer, but no solid bullet, allowing the gun to be fired with sound and flash effects without the risk of an actual projectile. However, the gun was not properly checked and cleared before the blank was fired, and the dummy bullet previously lodged in the barrel was then propelled forward by the blank's propellant and shot out the muzzle with almost the same force as if the round were live, striking Lee in the abdomen.[99][100]

After Massee pulled the trigger and shot Lee, Lee fell backwards instead of forwards as he was supposed to. When the director said "cut", Lee did not stand up and the crew thought he was either still acting or kidding around. Jeff Imada, who immediately checked Lee, noticed something wrong when he came close and noted Lee was unconscious and breathing heavily. Medic Clyde Baisey went over and shook Lee to see if he was dazed by hitting his head during the fall, but did not think Lee had been shot since there was no visible bleeding. Baisey took Lee's pulse, which was regular, but within two to three minutes it slowed down dramatically, and stopped.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Lee#Death

[Res Ipsa]

for what it's worth,

A dummy round or drill round is a round that is completely inert, i.e., contains no primer, propellant, or explosive charge.[1] It is used to check weapon function, and for crew training.[2] Dummy ammunition is distinct from "practice" ammunition, which may contain smaller than normal amounts of propellant and/or explosive.[3] For example, the M69 practice hand grenade[4] emits a loud pop and a puff of white smoke.

A dummy is not to be confused with a blank, a cartridge for a firearm that contains propellant and a primer but no bullet or shot; a dummy does not produce an explosive sound like a blank does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_round

Thanks. I learned something today.

[Physics Guy]

As the term is usually used, a "dummy bullet" is literally impossible to fire, because in a proper dummy cartridge the bullet and casing are one solid piece, of metal or even of plastic. The whole dummy cartridge couldn't possibly fit down the barrel even if some big force propelled it, and with the dummy cartridge in the firing chamber, there is no room for anything else that could possibly propel anything.

So proper dummy cartridges have uses in training, and in a movie they'd be good if you wanted to show a quick close-up of rounds being loaded or something, but they really are completely safe. The only way to hurt yourself with one would be to poke yourself in the eye with it or something. Shooting someone with a proper dummy bullet makes no sense at all.

The scenario that killed Brandon Lee is in contrast all too possible. A primer is just like the cap in a cap gun, except bigger. It's like ten or twenty caps or something, and it's there to make a little burst of flame when it's struck hard ("percussion"), just like a cap. The flame from the primer then ignites the main propellant charge. Percussion primers are what replaced the flint and steel in flintlock muskets, which in turn replaced the burning wick in the very earliest matchlock muskets. Improvising a dummy round without removing the primer doesn't make a dummy round at all, just a very weak live round.

(Upgrading to ignition by chemical primers, instead of from flint-and-steel sparks, also let us replace gunpowder with more powerful kinds of explosive that also don't make so much smoke. The stuff in modern firearms isn't technically gunpowder.)

It's an example of why the only real firearms safety is fanatical firearms safety, where you don't just worry about things that seem likely to happen but about anything that could possibly happen. When I took a firearms safety course a few years ago to get a hunting license, I learned the drill that whenever you pick up or are handed a firearm you physically check that the firing chamber is empty, and then turn the weapon around and look down the barrel to confirm that it's clear of obstructions. That second step was new to me; it didn't use to be part of the drill because it's normally not about keeping anyone from getting shot, but just about protecting yourself and your valuable rifle from a breech explosion if you later tried to fire a round through an obstruction. It is a good idea, though, and if people were doing it then they also wouldn't shoot people with bullets that had gotten stuck in barrels from idiotically unsafe improvised dummy rounds.

The new drill, with the look-down-the-barrel step, maybe also just makes people more careful about the first step of checking the chamber. Even thinking about looking down the muzzle really makes you want to be sure that the weapon's not loaded. You're not just going to glance.