If they were playing Republic, instead of Baseball, we would still call them the losers if they didn’t win.
I may need some clarification here as the comparison seems muddled to me. Are you suggesting that attempting to grab political control via any means is the same as playing a game of baseball by a pre-agreed on set of rules? I personally don't see those as two equal battles starting from a point of neutrality.
Your analogy would make more snense to me if the Giants played the game by an agreed upon set of rules and lost. Then in an effort to overthrow that result attacked MLB headquarters to get their win.
It is also possible I'm just too dense to get what you were suggesting here.
You got it.
The agreed set of rules were subject to interpretation in 2020. Those were the rules. This was just another peaceful protest to the people that were playing that day. Those were the agreed set of rule for those people, and they lost.
You do not like it. I do not like it. I have not met anyone that liked it or thought it was a good idea. The events of that day, the actions and reactions, were disgraceful. But we can stop pretending that this was outside the lines of behavior that was happening all across the country. It was just unusual to be at the capital.
If you don’t like it, arrest the losers.
Oh. Xenophon. No. The rioters - they were playing the game. Not the politicians. The politicians were the mascots, not the players.
Fair enough, I think I at least understand your position now. For the record I do know at least a few people that did like the events of that day, up until the point it didn't work of course.
Oh. Xenophon. No. The rioters - they were playing the game. Not the politicians. The politicians were the mascots, not the players.
I might suggest that in that framework you present that several of them were the coaches too, actively setting up the play. I do have some sympathy for those that are true believers and showed up for what they thought would be a peaceful protest of their perceived injustice. I just think there were enough that planned on it being much more than that.
He/Him
“If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation.”
― Xenophon
I do have some sympathy for those that are true believers and showed up for what they thought would be a peaceful protest of their perceived injustice. I just think there were enough that planned on it being much more than that.
I can roll with that.
The nefarious players are indeed a curious element. I do not think we know them all.
Not saying I don’t care that there are people on the margins of society getting violent, but that’s a long-standing known quantity; the difference is that with the capitol rioters and Qanon the large numbers of people with jobs, family ties, and no criminal record getting violent over something completely and obviously made up and transparently stupid.
Show me the leftists doing the same and I’ll think about saying the left is doing the same thing.
Not saying I don’t care that there are people on the margins of society getting violent, but that’s a long-standing known quantity; the difference is that with the capitol rioters and Qanon the large numbers of people with jobs, family ties, and no criminal record getting violent over something completely and obviously made up and transparently stupid.
Show me the leftists doing the same and I’ll think about saying the left is doing the same thing.
The leftists aren't doing the same thing. Not even close. It still astonishes me that every time Right Wing violence is mentioned, someone thinks they're being even handed with this whataboutism on the Left. They like to bring up Antifa and BLM protests. Good grief. There were literally tens of millions of people protesting during the BLM protests over the course of six months and remind me again how many people were killed? Something like 25, and from what I can see virtually all of them happened when Right Wingers showed up to counter protest and cause trouble. If those people would have been left alone all the Right would have to complain about would be some dumpster fires.
And I don't know of anyone Leftists groups who have planned to kidnap or assassinate public officials.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal" - Ajax18
Thanks baby Jesus and his girlfriend that you ain’t the decider of anything, because, that’s just like, your opinion, man.
Yowza. You seem to be on the side of the vigilantes. Go on with your badass cowboy self.
If your guys had shot better, Kyle would be dead and not the other guys, your guys, apparently.
No, anyone who broke the law should be charged and held accountable. You obviously are just biased. Kyle came in as a vigilante, but somehow you can’t see that.
I can only hope Cult doesn't have kids. An important lesson parents teach children is that if they put themselves in dangerous situations they're more likely to find danger. Kyle idiot went there with the intent to kill. His cell phone call after killing someone suggested to me we're dealing with a psychopath. It just boggles the mind how a child like that could travel across state lines armed to the teeth and then kill a few people and then people defend him as if his decision to inject himself in the middle of chaos had nothing to do with three dead people. The fact is if he had stayed home those people would be alive today. He wasn't saving anyone's lives, he was taking them.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal" - Ajax18
Not saying I don’t care that there are people on the margins of society getting violent, but that’s a long-standing known quantity; the difference is that with the capitol rioters and Qanon the large numbers of people with jobs, family ties, and no criminal record getting violent over something completely and obviously made up and transparently stupid.
[...]
Yup. That was truly weird.
One way of dealing with that unprecedented outbreak of violence and destruction is to suggest that all the 'regular folks' who supposedly turned up for a peaceful bit of rubbernecking round the Capitol were somehow innocently misled by a few evil provocateurs into attacking police officers, breaking into offices, and waving nooses about. You see they were all just naïve hicks who did not realise that was not normal behaviour in DC.
The other way is, like you, to face up to the frightening fact that a lot of regular people did turn up in a (for them) unprecedented state of indignation and arousal, ready for at least some degree of violence, as a result of weeks during which they had been repeatedly been told the lie that Trump had in fact been lawfully elected, that the election result as officially announced was a massive criminal fraud, and after a rally at which their beloved leader had told them to march to the Capitol (supposedly with him at their head, only he chickened out) and "fight like hell".
Don't let's dress that stuff up in fancy language: these were criminal acts.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
I may need some clarification here as the comparison seems muddled to me. Are you suggesting that attempting to grab political control via any means is the same as playing a game of baseball by a pre-agreed on set of rules? I personally don't see those as two equal battles starting from a point of neutrality.
Your analogy would make more snense to me if the Giants played the game by an agreed upon set of rules and lost. Then in an effort to overthrow that result attacked MLB headquarters to get their win.
It is also possible I'm just too dense to get what you were suggesting here.
You got it.
The agreed set of rules were subject to interpretation in 2020. Those were the rules. This was just another peaceful protest to the people that were playing that day. Those were the agreed set of rule for those people, and they lost.
You do not like it. I do not like it. I have not met anyone that liked it or thought it was a good idea. The events of that day, the actions and reactions, were disgraceful. But we can stop pretending that this was outside the lines of behavior that was happening all across the country. It was just unusual to be at the capital.
If you don’t like it, arrest the losers.
Oh. Xenophon. No. The rioters - they were playing the game. Not the politicians. The politicians were the mascots, not the players.
Strangely, I’ve not yet witnessed, say, a World Series where fans of the losing team bought into conspiracy theories about their loss, attended rallies held by the losing Team Manager about how they were cheated, mobbed the MLB headquarters in an attempt to ‘stop the steal’, killed some folks, and then went on to order replays of the game to re-count the runs and still talk about moving their team to another league.
ACLED found that the overwhelming majority of the more than 9.000 Black Lives Matter demonstrations that took place across the US after the killing of George Floyd have been peaceful. News reports at the height of demonstrations over Floyd’s killing cited dozens of deaths in connection with protests, but many of those turned out to be examples of deadly crimes carried out in the vicinity of protests, rather than directly related to the demonstrations themselves, the researchers concluded. ACLED’s dataset only focuses on political violence.
Most of the protesters killed this year were shot to death, and many of the incidents involved confrontations at protests that escalated and turned deadly when at least one of the people involved had a gun.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal" - Ajax18
Don't let's dress that stuff up in fancy language: these were criminal acts.
Technically yes. But these offenders were white. They were Patriots. They were acting on justified grievances. Don't believe me? Just ask Tucker Carlson.
This reminds me of that scene from Mississippi Burning, where the local judge sentences a half dozen white supremacists to 10 years in jail but then says he's "suspending" those sentences because the regular white folks of Mississippi were "provoked" by the "interference" of Federal officials investigating the murder of black civil rights activists.
This is how the government defended Capitol Hill during the BLM protests:
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Last edited by K Graham on Sat Oct 30, 2021 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal" - Ajax18
