West on the West

[Kishkumen]

That's an interesting question Kishkumen. Ben Shapiro had a philosophical discussion about the question, "What is liberty?" on the Daily Wire last week. I was surprised to hear so much disagreement between coservatives on the issue. What exactly is liberty in your opinion?

To me liberty is first and foremost my right to vote, then to exercise my freedom of speech, and my right to own property. Of course, it is a lot more complicated than that. Liberty, freedom, and rights are malleable terms. People throw around these terms ignorantly and irresponsibly. We should start every discussion on these topics by establishing common ground or at least a definite focus. Otherwise we are wasting our time talking about it. Conservatives and progressives have very different ideas about what our rights and liberties should be.

[Kishkumen]

I too always enjoy your posts Kish. I was so close to getting into academia for a living, and so I see your frustration and real terror of none of us actually being able to do a lot about making actual education come back into the lives of our kids and grandchildren. The world has gotten far too greedy, imagining money answers all things, when that myth is almost as bald faced a lie as Russell M. Nelson prophesying daily about the nature of the world is...

Greed has always been a big motivator. It is greed plus materialism that worries me. Even so-called spiritual organizations and people are desiccated by the materialist environment they occupy.

[Res Ipsa]

I think Liberty is an inherently contradictory concept, with individuals flipping back and forth between the contradictory forces without even realizing that they are doing it. Because the opposing concepts cannot ever be reconciled, it is functionally an ongoing negotiation, struggle, or battle. I’m not surprised at all that Ajax heard a range of different meanings among conservatives. You’d find the same thing among liberals.

[Kishkumen]

I think Liberty is an inherently contradictory concept, with individuals flipping back and forth between the contradictory forces without even realizing that they are doing it. Because the opposing concepts cannot ever be reconciled, it is functionally an ongoing negotiation, struggle, or battle. I’m not surprised at all that Ajax heard a range of different meanings among conservatives. You’d find the same thing among liberals.

Well put!

[Moksha]

... for a place like Howard University, where the idea of right and wrong answers to a mathematical problem are viewed as an example of systemic white supremacy and evidence of anti-black racial discrimination by the faculty.

Do you still post at the Klan Times-Picayune?

[Gunnar]

Kish, as always, thank you for being so generous with your knowledge and expertise in this field (both the subjects themselves, and the broader cultural significance and happenings). I always learn something new, and/or find myself with a richer and more broad perspective than I had before.

Thank you, Doctor Steuss. I think a lot of people mean well and try to make a positive difference. How best to do that is always a difficult question. It is when we fight over the how and get paralyzed that those who resist the good find a lot of unwitting allies.

I echo Doctor Steuss' thanks and appreciation for your contributions to this forum. I have never seen you post anything that did not make a positive difference. Not everyone is or needs to be a dedicated classics scholar like you, but the world would seem a poorer and less interesting place if no one was. I'm obviously not anything close to a classics scholar, but I feel that my intellect and appreciation of culture and language have been greatly enhanced by what I have learned from people dedicated to studying the classics and preserving the best of ancient culture and thought.

[Cultellus]

Great thread. Great thoughts, Kishkumen.

I agree with you. I see things similarly.

I think this is an example where the subject is unnecessarily politicized and polarized. I also think that the process of being a republic is more important than the outcome of any individual or unique issue. What you are describing with the departments, is sad. It seems that the process of the republic, the history of the republic and the foundation of an educated constituency is less relevant than someone’s immediate feelings or shame.

It is weird. Good luck.

I agree with you on the unnecessary politicization and polarization. But I’m not sure I’m understanding what you mean by “process of the republic.” Would you mind unpacking that a bit?

Sure.

Calling ourselves a republic is not enough. We have a way of making that a reality. The obvious way we do it is by having elections. But there is more to it. We have terms of service, judicial appointments, policing, judiciaries and legislatures. There are may parts of the process that go into the republic being united among 50 states.

That process is more important than any single issue, single event or single person. And when that process is compromised the republic gets weaker.

I also think the process gets weaker when we do not invest in teaching each other about the how, the process.

[Xenophon]

I think Liberty is an inherently contradictory concept, with individuals flipping back and forth between the contradictory forces without even realizing that they are doing it. Because the opposing concepts cannot ever be reconciled, it is functionally an ongoing negotiation, struggle, or battle. I’m not surprised at all that Ajax heard a range of different meanings among conservatives. You’d find the same thing among liberals.

a big "Amen" to this.

[Cultellus]

... for a place like Howard University, where the idea of right and wrong answers to a mathematical problem are viewed as an example of systemic white supremacy and evidence of anti-black racial discrimination by the faculty.

Do you still post at the Klan Times-Picayune?

I never realized penguins were so not clever or funny.

[Morley]

Many thanks for posting this, Kish--but god, it makes me sad. I especially found the Cornel West quotation meaningful. Unfortunately, this reinforces my growing perception that we who lean left are cannibalizing ourselves with our own purity tests. What was once a healthy critical questioning has morphed into a type of self-mortification that's slowly but painfully killing us.