Page 4 of 5
Re: JOe BIDeN, PLEaSE PaY MIGRAnT FAmILIES $900,000 WHiLE AMERICaN FAMILIeS ArE STRUGGLiNg tO mAKE ENdS MeET.
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:07 pm
by K Graham
Atlanticmike wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:55 pm
K Graham wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 4:57 pm
The "payouts" aren't for people just because they crossed illegally. It is being suggested only for the relatively few whose human rights were violated by the Trump administration. If a government destroys your family and violates your rights, it doesn't matter if they were here illegally or not. And not all of them were "crossing illegally," many were presenting themselves at the border to apply for asylum which is their legal right under international law. But Trump shut down that legal process.
If it were me I'd just let this all play out in the courts, but Biden seems dead set on doing this because "it is the right thing to do."
I honestly hope he does it. Preferably before the midterm elections.
I hope he does too. Of course it will only energize what's left of Trump's racist base, but he never won the popular vote on his best day anyway and a lot of his voters are dead now thanks to his idiotic response to COVID.
Re: JOe BIDeN, PLEaSE PaY MIGRAnT FAmILIES $900,000 WHiLE AMERICaN FAMILIeS ArE STRUGGLiNg tO mAKE ENdS MeET.
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:16 pm
by Atlanticmike
K Graham wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:07 pm
Atlanticmike wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:55 pm
I honestly hope he does it. Preferably before the midterm elections.
I hope he does too. Of course it will only energize what's left of Trump's racist base, but he never won the popular vote on his best day anyway and a lot of his voters are dead now thanks to his idiotic response to COVID.
I agree it will energize Trump's base, but it will also energize most Libertarians, moderates on both sides and a portion of liberals. I can see the campaign commercials now! JOE BIDEN MAKES ILLEGAL ALIENS INSTANT MILLIONAIRES AND SOLIDLY PLANTS THEM IN THE "HATED 1%" while average Americans are struggling through one of the worst pandemics in 100 years. Let's go Brandon!!
Re: JOe BIDeN, PLEaSE PaY MIGRAnT FAmILIES $900,000 WHiLE AMERICaN FAMILIeS ArE STRUGGLiNg tO mAKE ENdS MeAT.
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:02 pm
by doubtingthomas
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:00 pm
You’re kind of asking the wrong question. The plaintiffs don’t have to prove that the conduct was illegal. They have to prove that they had some right to be treated according to some standard and that the government violated that standard, causing them harm.
Sounds debatable.
In US prisons many standards are violated every day.
Re: JOe BIDeN, PLEaSE PaY MIGRAnT FAmILIES $900,000 WHiLE AMERICaN FAMILIeS ArE STRUGGLiNg tO mAKE ENdS MeAT.
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:18 pm
by Res Ipsa
doubtingthomas wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:02 pm
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:00 pm
You’re kind of asking the wrong question. The plaintiffs don’t have to prove that the conduct was illegal. They have to prove that they had some right to be treated according to some standard and that the government violated that standard, causing them harm.
Sounds debatable.
In US prisons many standards are violated every day.
Yes they are. And the same analysis applies. We all have a bundle of rights. The bundles aren’t all the same. Minors generally don’t have the same bundle as adults. A citizen has a different bundle than a resident alien. A resident alien has a different bundle that an alien here on a visa. An asylum seeker has a different bundle.
So, first you have to figure out what’s in the specific individuals bundle. Then you have to figure out whether the government broke something in the bundle. Then you have to figure out what the appropriate remedy should be. Finally, you have to figure out whether the government’s sovereign immunity applies. If it does, you have to figure out if it’s been waived.
Sure, standards are violated in prisons. What do you think we can conclude from that?
Re: JOe BIDeN, PLEaSE PaY MIGRAnT FAmILIES $900,000 WHiLE AMERICaN FAMILIeS ArE STRUGGLiNg tO mAKE ENdS MeET.
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:13 pm
by ceeboo
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:33 pm
For the record I’m against any payout or settlement. It doesn’t mean that I think caging people, whether it happens under a Democratic or Republican regime, is a good policy. There are plenty of “Liberal” countries that have strict or at least stricter immigration rules than the US. So the question of whether or not a fairly Liberal country can assert their right to enforce their borders with a more or less firm hand is moot. When people come here illegally this country has a right to stop them, detain them, and send them packing. They violated our rules. They don’t get a payout. It’s ridiculous.
I should caveat that I understand their motivations to break our laws and enter our country illegally. I’d probably do the same if my country were an absolute crap hole with no hope of pulling out of its own corrupt and incompetent narrative. It doesn’t change anything with regard to breaking our laws.
- Doc
Wisdom.
Re: JOe BIDeN, PLEaSE PaY MIGRAnT FAmILIES $900,000 WHiLE AMERICaN FAMILIeS ArE STRUGGLiNg tO mAKE ENdS MeET.
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:36 pm
by K Graham
Atlanticmike wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:16 pm
K Graham wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:07 pm
I hope he does too. Of course it will only energize what's left of Trump's racist base, but he never won the popular vote on his best day anyway and a lot of his voters are dead now thanks to his idiotic response to COVID.
I agree it will energize Trump's base, but it will also energize most Libertarians, moderates on both sides and a portion of liberals. I can see the campaign commercials now! JOE BIDEN MAKES ILLEGAL ALIENS INSTANT MILLIONAIRES AND SOLIDLY PLANTS THEM IN THE "HATED 1%" while average Americans are struggling through one of the worst pandemics in 100 years. Let's go Brandon!!
Only FOX News would be dishonest enough to run with such an idiotic headline. No one cares what FOX thinks except the idiots who watch it.
Re: JOe BIDeN, PLEaSE PaY MIGRAnT FAmILIES $900,000 WHiLE AMERICaN FAMILIeS ArE STRUGGLiNg tO mAKE ENdS MeET.
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:36 pm
by K Graham
ceeboo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:13 pm
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:33 pm
For the record I’m against any payout or settlement. It doesn’t mean that I think caging people, whether it happens under a Democratic or Republican regime, is a good policy. There are plenty of “Liberal” countries that have strict or at least stricter immigration rules than the US. So the question of whether or not a fairly Liberal country can assert their right to enforce their borders with a more or less firm hand is moot. When people come here illegally this country has a right to stop them, detain them, and send them packing. They violated our rules. They don’t get a payout. It’s ridiculous.
I should caveat that I understand their motivations to break our laws and enter our country illegally. I’d probably do the same if my country were an absolute crap hole with no hope of pulling out of its own corrupt and incompetent narrative. It doesn’t change anything with regard to breaking our laws.
- Doc
Wisdom.
Opinions you agree with aren't synonymous with wisdom.
Re: JOe BIDeN, PLEaSE PaY MIGRAnT FAmILIES $900,000 WHiLE AMERICaN FAMILIeS ArE STRUGGLiNg tO mAKE ENdS MeET.
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:00 am
by Cultellus
K Graham wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:36 pm
ceeboo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:13 pm
Wisdom.
Opinions you agree with aren't synonymous with wisdom.
If that is a specific comment, then it is a rule violation. It appears specific. I am reporting it.
Re: JOe BIDeN, PLEaSE PaY MIGRAnT FAmILIES $900,000 WHiLE AMERICaN FAMILIeS ArE STRUGGLiNg tO mAKE ENdS MeET.
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:30 pm
by Father Francis
Cultellus wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:00 am
K Graham wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:36 pm
Opinions you agree with aren't synonymous with wisdom.
If that is a specific comment, then it is a rule violation. It appears specific. I am reporting it.
Why are you here?
Re: JOe BIDeN, PLEaSE PaY MIGRAnT FAmILIES $900,000 WHiLE AMERICaN FAMILIeS ArE STRUGGLiNg tO mAKE ENdS MeET.
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:43 pm
by Cultellus
Father Francis wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:30 pm
Cultellus wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:00 am
If that is a specific comment, then it is a rule violation. It appears specific. I am reporting it.
Why are you here?
To be your friend, to help you, and to talk to my own sock puppets.
Howdy!