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Re: Rittenhouse Trial: Calling Res Ipsa
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:30 am
by doubtingthomas
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:52 am
What damned alternate universe is DT existing in
It is not an alternative universe, it is simply common sense. Here is what I found after doing some research.
Grosskreutz
didn't break the law for having a gun in his hand. Rittenhouse did break the law for pointing his rifle. "If a person
intentionally points a gun at someone else, they may face Class A misdemeanor charges".
https://www.bucherlawgroup.com/milwauke ... hould-know
And Grosskreutz didn't break the law for following the crowd. According to the law in Wisconsin, "Stalking is defined as conduct directed towards the victim
on two separate occasions, during which—on one occasion—the accused stalker became aware that the actions were unwelcome."
https://www.traceywood.com/wisconsin-stalking-laws/
Grosskreutz didn't do anything wrong or illegal to provoke Rittenhouse.
No verbal threats or anything to suggest Grosskreutz wanted to kill Rittenhouse in front of many people, and cops were not far away.
Please stop defending Rittenhouse, he is a criminal for pointing his rifle at people.
Re: Rittenhouse Trial: Calling Res Ipsa
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:06 am
by drumdude
If only there were some evidence he pointed his rifle…
The 12 jurors certainly didn’t see it.
Re: Rittenhouse Trial: Calling Res Ipsa
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:45 pm
by ajax18
I was thinking more about the theoretical difference difference between a citizens exercising individual rights under law and a citizen taking on the duties of law enforcement.
What exactly is the difference in these two things? Shouldn't it have been law enforcements job to disarm Rittenhouse not the citizens?
Re: Rittenhouse Trial: Calling Res Ipsa
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:17 pm
by Res Ipsa
ajax18 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:45 pm
I was thinking more about the theoretical difference difference between a citizens exercising individual rights under law and a citizen taking on the duties of law enforcement.
What exactly is the difference in these two things? Shouldn't it have been law enforcements job to disarm Rittenhouse not the citizens?
At least in Wisconsin, your self defense privilege also applies to defense of others. The requirements for use of less than deadly force are less stringent than those for use of deadly force. Attempting to disarm someone can be done with use of force that isn’t deadly force.
Re: Rittenhouse Trial: Calling Res Ipsa
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:29 pm
by Res Ipsa
doubtingthomas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:15 am
Binger wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:47 am
Wrong. The tragedy is that people screwed around and found out. Open carry is not the tragedy at all.
Grosskreutz
didn't break the law for having a gun in his hand. Rittenhouse did break the law for pointing his rifle. "If a person
intentionally points a gun at someone else, they may face Class A misdemeanor charges".
https://www.bucherlawgroup.com/milwauke ... hould-know
And Grosskreutz didn't break the law for following the crowd. According to the law in Wisconsin, "Stalking is defined as conduct directed towards the victim
on two separate occasions, during which—on one occasion—the accused stalker became aware that the actions were unwelcome."
https://www.traceywood.com/wisconsin-stalking-laws/
According to a professor of criminal law, "First, the use of force must be proportionate to the force employed by the aggressor. If the aggressor lightly punches the victim in the arm, for example, the victim cannot use deadly force in response.
It’s not proportional...A person’s
own subjective view of this fear is not enough to satisfy the standard for self-defense."
The word you are overlooking is "may."
Re: Rittenhouse Trial: Calling Res Ipsa
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:01 pm
by doubtingthomas
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:29 pm
The word you are overlooking is "may."
I understand, that is fair. But I still don't see why Rittenhouse had a good reason to point his rifle at Grosskreutz. And according to one report, "Grosskreutz, a paramedic from Milwaukee, had attended dozens of Black Lives Matter demonstrations that summer, acting as a medic and
legal observer...Video evidence shows Grosskreutz
stopping and raising his hands, his pistol pointing in the air. Grosskreutz
testified that he saw Rittenhouse re-rack his rifle to load a new round into the chamber."
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/10535675 ... y-kenoshav
Grosskreutz said Ritenhouse tried to shoot when he had his hands up. If true, that would make Rittenhouse guilty of Attempt to Manslaughter.
Re: Rittenhouse Trial: Calling Res Ipsa
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:14 pm
by Res Ipsa
doubtingthomas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:01 pm
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:29 pm
The word you are overlooking is "may."
I understand, that is fair. But I still don't see why Rittenhouse had a good reason to point his rifle at Grosskreutz. And according to one report, "Grosskreutz, a paramedic from Milwaukee, had attended dozens of Black Lives Matter demonstrations that summer, acting as a medic and
legal observer...Video evidence shows Grosskreutz
stopping and raising his hands, his pistol pointing in the air. Grosskreutz
testified that he saw Rittenhouse re-rack his rifle to load a new round into the chamber."
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/10535675 ... y-kenoshav
Grosskreutz said Ritenhouse tried to shoot when he had his hands up. If true, that would make Rittenhouse guilty of Attempt to Manslaughter.
Have you read Rittenhouse's trial testimony yet?
Re: Rittenhouse Trial: Calling Res Ipsa
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:54 pm
by ajax18
Video evidence shows Grosskreutz stopping and raising his hands, his pistol pointing in the air.
But that's not what Grosskreutz said under cross examination and it's not what he told the police initially.
Re: Rittenhouse Trial: Calling Res Ipsa
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:55 pm
by doubtingthomas
drumdude wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:06 am
If only there were some evidence he pointed his rifle…
The 12 jurors certainly didn’t see it.
Perhaps if the judge would have allowed more evidence in court.
"New Study Shows How Often Juries Get It Wrong"
https://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter ... uries.html
Re: Rittenhouse Trial: Calling Res Ipsa
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:57 pm
by doubtingthomas
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:14 pm
Have you read Rittenhouse's trial testimony yet?
I watched the first 45 minutes, it is long and it was painful to watch. I will try to finish watching it tonight.