Ben Shapiro lies about Omicron and vaccines

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Gunnar
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Re: Ben Shapiro lies about Omicron and vaccines

Post by Gunnar »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:08 pm
Gunnar wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:58 pm
In the California county in which I live (one of California's red counties), the differences between vaccinated and un-vaccinated are not quite as pronounced. According to our county's covid dashboard, 59% of the population are fully vaccinated (disappointingly low, compared to the national average of 62.6% and the California average of 67%). There were 260 new cases reported yesterday, only 44.4% of which were unvaccinated. Of the cumulative total of covid patients who have been hospitalized, 89.4% were unvaccinated, but of the 31 people currently still hospitalized (9 in ICU), only 50% are unvaccinated.
Someone has already mentioned 'sample size' as a concern when looking at these sorts of statistics, and another thing to bear in mind is the base rate. The population's vaccination rate needs to be factored in when measuring the effectiveness of vaccinations. For example, for the sake of argument if we assume vaccinations have zero effectiveness then the expected rate of unvaccinated cases in California would be ~ 33% and ~ 67% of cases would be among the vaccinated. So, even if 50% of California's cases occurred in vaccinated persons it would be evidence that vaccination is effective; this is because the baseline for comparison is not 50/50, but 67/33. For your county, it would be 59/41.

Here is an article from last year that discussed 'base rate' as it pertained to COVID cased in Iceland: https://www.npr.org/2021/08/20/10295823 ... e-pandemic
Thanks for bringing out that very important point. It is obvious that the greater the percentage of the population that is fully vaccinated, the greater will be percentage of covid victims who are fully vaccinated. For example: if the vaccine is 90% effective, and 90% of the population is fully vaccinated, then that 90% of the population would still have a 10% chance of catching covid if exposed to it. Even if 100% of the 10% who are still unvaccinated who are exposed to covid catch it, the number of unvaccinated victims of covid will almost certainly be smaller than the number of fully vaccinated people with covid. Obviously this doesn't mean there is no benefit in getting vaccinated.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Ben Shapiro lies about Omicron and vaccines

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Gunnar wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:18 pm
Thanks for bringing out that very important point. It is obvious that the greater the percentage of the population that is fully vaccinated, the greater will be percentage of covid victims who are fully vaccinated. For example: if the vaccine is 90% effective, and 90% of the population is fully vaccinated, then that 90% of the population would still have a 10% chance of catching covid if exposed to it. Even if 100% of the 10% who are still unvaccinated who are exposed to covid catch it, the number of unvaccinated victims of covid will almost certainly be smaller than the number of fully vaccinated people with covid. Obviously this doesn't mean there is no benefit in getting vaccinated.
It’s actually not obvious at all. You’re asking the general population to 1) understand the current narrative of vaxxed vs. unvaxxed as it relates to vaccine effectiveness. This is already a very difficult task for dimwits and midwits, like myself. And so 2) when you layer over that narrative with another set of variables even ‘high midwits’ will start to get confused, and lose track of the data sets as it’s being discussed. Here’s an example of what I’m talking about with regard to tracking a relatively simple narrative:

Image

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheherazade

If you really want to understand the deep sense of insecurity ‘they’ feel it’s because they literally can’t read for comprehension, they can’t understand the science, and because they have grifters appealing to their inate sense of delusional self-importance they default to what we’ve not only seen on this board, but across the Internet. You’ll never reason an idiot into understanding- it’s an impossible ask. This is why I’m ok with them self-selecting out of the gene pool. The overall cost to society burdens us all, though, and I don’t know what to do with that since they tend to outbreed the competents.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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ajax18
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Re: Ben Shapiro lies about Omicron and vaccines

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3. Regarding quarantines, under which circumstances should these be done away with?
We knew as early as April 2020 that Covid eradication was not going to be possible. I remember people on this board who claimed that Australia and New Zealand were proof that Covid eradication was possible. This has turned out to be false. We also had reputable epidemiologists telling us that shutting down schools would not be worth the long term costs we're going to see in childhood depression and illiteracy. And yet anyone who presented data against school shutdowns was quickly shut down as having blood on their hands, due in large part to the fact that the Democrat party does whatever the teachers union tells them to do. Why would they ever go back to work if they're getting paid to stay home? There are millions of people in the undeveloped world who are actually starving to death due to Covid shutdowns. Even China has now admitted that Covid did not originate in a wet market yet anyone who mentioned the possibility that Covid originated due to a Wuhan lab leak was promptly banned from Facebook, attacked as anti Chinese racist and removed from the public square. There's been an extensive effort to shut down any scientific debate or evidence that does not follow the current regime. Instead of being a neutral manner of finding the truth, science and in particular the WHO and CDC have become a high priesthood that can shut down and suppress any information that doesn't fit their hypotheses. In short we've made hypotheses family members and political allies worthy of protection from any information that might discredit them which is about as nonscientific as it gets.

We first had Kamala Harris on the debate stage saying she wouldn't take any vaccine developed under President Trump. Now anyone who regardless of their own vaccination status does not support vaccine passports and vaccine mandates is considered an antivaxxer. Now we're starting to see Omicron spread in places with very high vaccination rates infecting people who have recently gotten booster shots. And we're seeing the same failed policies of schools closing, curfews, and lockdowns implemented. And somehow we're seeing the same blame placed on those dirty unvaccinated even after we're seeing with our own eyes and were warned by Pfizer and Moderna that vaccines did not stop virus transmission from person to person.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Ben Shapiro lies about Omicron and vaccines

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 am
3. Regarding quarantines, under which circumstances should these be done away with?
We knew as early as April 2020 that Covid eradication was not going to be possible. I remember people on this board who claimed that Australia and New Zealand were proof that Covid eradication was possible. This has turned out to be false. We also had reputable epidemiologists telling us that shutting down schools would not be worth the long term costs we're going to see in childhood depression and illiteracy. And yet anyone who presented data against school shutdowns was quickly shut down as having blood on their hands, due in large part to the fact that the Democrat party does whatever the teachers union tells them to do. Why would they ever go back to work if they're getting paid to stay home? There are millions of people in the undeveloped world who are actually starving to death due to Covid shutdowns. Even China has now admitted that Covid did not originate in a wet market yet anyone who mentioned the possibility that Covid originated due to a Wuhan lab leak was promptly banned from Facebook, attacked as anti Chinese racist and removed from the public square. There's been an extensive effort to shut down any scientific debate or evidence that does not follow the current regime. Instead of being a neutral manner of finding the truth, science and in particular the WHO and CDC have become a high priesthood that can shut down and suppress any information that doesn't fit their hypotheses. In short we've made hypotheses family members and political allies worthy of protection from any information that might discredit them which is about as nonscientific as it gets.

We first had Kamala Harris on the debate stage saying she wouldn't take any vaccine developed under President Trump. Now anyone who regardless of their own vaccination status does not support vaccine passports and vaccine mandates is considered an antivaxxer. Now we're starting to see Omicron spread in places with very high vaccination rates infecting people who have recently gotten booster shots. And we're seeing the same failed policies of schools closing, curfews, and lockdowns implemented. And somehow we're seeing the same blame placed on those dirty unvaccinated even after we're seeing with our own eyes and were warned by Pfizer and Moderna that vaccines did not stop virus transmission from person to person.
QED

eta: multiple polls have revealed that more than half of Americans believe God will protect them from the coronavirus, with smaller margins believing God is using the coronavirus to punish us for the sins of *insert whatever group bothers you here*. Is it any wonder the walking muppet would post what he posted above? That’s his ceiling. That’s the maximum limit of his ability to think, reason, and process information. The sad thing is he’s just one among literally a 100,000,000 + people who share a similar brain.

Alt Shift X does an excellent job framing this topic:

https://youtu.be/o7A0S7UbXyY

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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canpakes
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Re: Ben Shapiro lies about Omicron and vaccines

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ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 am
3. Regarding quarantines, under which circumstances should these be done away with?
We knew as early as April 2020 that Covid eradication was not going to be possible. I remember people on this board who claimed that Australia and New Zealand were proof that Covid eradication was possible. This has turned out to be false. We also had reputable epidemiologists telling us that shutting down schools would not be worth the long term costs we're going to see in childhood depression and illiteracy. And yet anyone who presented data against school shutdowns was quickly shut down as having blood on their hands, due in large part to the fact that the Democrat party does whatever the teachers union tells them to do. Why would they ever go back to work if they're getting paid to stay home? There are millions of people in the undeveloped world who are actually starving to death due to Covid shutdowns. Even China has now admitted that Covid did not originate in a wet market yet anyone who mentioned the possibility that Covid originated due to a Wuhan lab leak was promptly banned from Facebook, attacked as anti Chinese racist and removed from the public square. There's been an extensive effort to shut down any scientific debate or evidence that does not follow the current regime. Instead of being a neutral manner of finding the truth, science and in particular the WHO and CDC have become a high priesthood that can shut down and suppress any information that doesn't fit their hypotheses. In short we've made hypotheses family members and political allies worthy of protection from any information that might discredit them which is about as nonscientific as it gets.

We first had Kamala Harris on the debate stage saying she wouldn't take any vaccine developed under President Trump. Now anyone who regardless of their own vaccination status does not support vaccine passports and vaccine mandates is considered an antivaxxer. Now we're starting to see Omicron spread in places with very high vaccination rates infecting people who have recently gotten booster shots. And we're seeing the same failed policies of schools closing, curfews, and lockdowns implemented. And somehow we're seeing the same blame placed on those dirty unvaccinated even after we're seeing with our own eyes and were warned by Pfizer and Moderna that vaccines did not stop virus transmission from person to person.
There’s a whole lot of words there, but no clear answer to the question. Should I interpret that post as meaning that there is now and never was any circumstance where a quarantine should be used?

And, what about these other two questions? -
1. Clarify, please. You believe that vaccines, masks, and quarantines have done very little to slow the spread of ONLY omicron?

2. How have either or both vaccines and masks cost more than the benefits provided by these measures?
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Re: Ben Shapiro lies about Omicron and vaccines

Post by Gunnar »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:56 am
It’s actually not obvious at all. You’re asking the general population to 1) understand the current narrative of vaxxed vs. unvaxxed as it relates to vaccine effectiveness. This is already a very difficult task for dimwits and midwits, like myself. And so 2) when you layer over that narrative with another set of variables even ‘high midwits’ will start to get confused, and lose track of the data sets as it’s being discussed. Here’s an example of what I’m talking about with regard to tracking a relatively simple narrative:
- Doc
Yeah, upon reading that, I must admit that you are probably right. It would only be obvious to people who have at least a rudimentary understanding of how probability and statistics work. Unfortunately such people probably constitute a minority of the American populace, so inadequate is the mathematical education of typical Americans. We rank among the lowest in the world in the general mathematical competence of our students at nearly all (if not all) grade levels, despite the fact that our most brilliant mathematicians and scientists are on a par with the best from any other country. Too many of our people, including many, if not most, of our political leaders and government officials are functionally "innumerate"
innumerate,
[iˈn(y)o͞omərət]
ADJECTIVE
without a basic knowledge of mathematics and arithmetic.
"to this day I am practically innumerate"
NOUN
a person lacking basic knowledge of mathematics and arithmetic.
which I think is in some ways more problematic than being illiterate. If we don't somehow manage to correct or reverse this fundamental lack in American culture, we will be increasingly in jeopardy of losing our once vaunted and admired leadership in science and technology, if we haven't already lost it. :( This also threatens our economic competitiveness and standard of living. The hard right MAGA crowd obviously neither understands nor cares about this issue and its troubling implications for the continuing viability of our nation and democracy, as long as they can continue to accumulate ever more wealth and power without limit for themselves to the near certain detriment of nearly everyone else for what remains of their lives.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: Ben Shapiro lies about Omicron and vaccines

Post by Jersey Girl »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:34 am


QED

eta: multiple polls have revealed that more than half of Americans believe God will protect them from the coronavirus, with smaller margins believing God is using the coronavirus to punish us for the sins of *insert whatever group bothers you here*. Is it any wonder the walking muppet would post what he posted above? That’s his ceiling. That’s the maximum limit of his ability to think, reason, and process information. The sad thing is he’s just one among literally a 100,000,000 + people who share a similar brain.

Alt Shift X does an excellent job framing this topic:

https://youtu.be/o7A0S7UbXyY

- Doc
I have no idea why I just read this.

I don't believe that God will protect me from the Covid 19. I believe that God created people who have the passion for science and research who have developed the knowledge and skill to advise me, and that God expects me to (well) use the brain He gave me and the advice from people far smarter than myself and the material and medical choices that have been made available to me just as much as He wants me to make smart use of the environment and every other aspect of human life and living it that has been made available to me.

I don't believe that God is using Covid 19 to punish any one group of people. I believe that God allows us to encounter such things as pandemic and that we humans reap the benefits or bear the consequences of our individual and collective choices.

I read a headline today or yesterday (?) that said only 1 in 5 Americans who are eligible to get vaccinated have actually been vaccinated. I find that horribly embarrassing and sad. I'm sure that a small percentage of those who are eligible are actually ineligible due to severe reactions to vaccines. I don't understand why the rest of "us" doesn't care that "we" should be moved to protect those ineligible few by getting vaccinated ourselves.

You don't have to believe in a god to understand the principles I've stated here. All you have to know how to do is think.

I'll read this tomorrow and see if I made any sense!
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
Gunnar
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Re: Ben Shapiro lies about Omicron and vaccines

Post by Gunnar »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:34 am
QED

eta: multiple polls have revealed that more than half of Americans believe God will protect them from the coronavirus, with smaller margins believing God is using the coronavirus to punish us for the sins of *insert whatever group bothers you here*. Is it any wonder the walking muppet would post what he posted above? That’s his ceiling. That’s the maximum limit of his ability to think, reason, and process information. The sad thing is he’s just one among literally a 100,000,000 + people who share a similar brain.

Alt Shift X does an excellent job framing this topic:

https://youtu.be/o7A0S7UbXyY

- Doc
That was an excellent and very enlightening video, Doc! Thanks for sharing it with us. I wish we could be sure that huge numbers of people would become aware of it and watch it!
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
Gunnar
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Re: Ben Shapiro lies about Omicron and vaccines

Post by Gunnar »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:40 am
I have no idea why I just read this.

I don't believe that God will protect me from the Covid 19. I believe that God created people who have the passion for science and research who have developed the knowledge and skill to advise me, and that God expects me to (well) use the brain He gave me and the advice from people far smarter than myself and the material and medical choices that have been made available to me just as much as He wants me to make smart use of the environment and every other aspect of human life and living it that has been made available to me.

I don't believe that God is using Covid 19 to punish any one group of people. I believe that God allows us to encounter such things as pandemic and that we humans reap the benefits or bear the consequences of our individual and collective choices.

I read a headline today or yesterday (?) that said only 1 in 5 Americans who are eligible to get vaccinated have actually been vaccinated. I find that horribly embarrassing and sad. I'm sure that a small percentage of those who are eligible are actually ineligible due to severe reactions to vaccines. I don't understand why the rest of "us" doesn't care that "we" should be moved to protect those ineligible few by getting vaccinated ourselves.

You don't have to believe in a god to understand the principles I've stated here. All you have to know how to do is think.

I'll read this tomorrow and see if I made any sense!
My guess as to why you read the above is that you are one of the most rational, fair-minded, eager to learn and compassionate people I have ever encountered. You don't tend to let your belief in God lead you into irrational, anti-science or "holier than thou" delusions or bigotry.

I can't say that I know with absolute certainty whether or not God or gods exist, though I strongly suspect that they don't. What I am fairly sure about, though, is that if there is a just and loving God, he would not have created us as beings that are inherently incapable of discovering truths about the nature of the universe and how it works, thus what evidence we have managed to discover about the real world should be compatible with what true religion (if there is any such thing) claims to have received via divine revelation. We know that there are innumerable, mutually contradictory religious beliefs and doctrines claimed to be supported by absolutely infallible divine revelation. This is why I say in my signature line, "No precept or claim is more suspect or likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority."

Religious leaders and would-be Prophets are fond of warning us to beware of the teachings of men, and this is good advice, because we mortals have made a lot of mistakes, and there have always been dishonest charlatans, both religious and otherwise relentlessly trying to take advantage of the gullibility and weakness of others, but I am far from convinced that there are or ever have been teachings available to us, true or not, that are not of men. Some teachings of men are better than others, and a lot of mistaken ones have been disproved and discarded along the way. I am firmly persuaded that there is no more reliable way than the scientific method to detect and discard the false and mistaken ideas, even though science and scientists themselves are not absolutely infallible.
Last edited by Gunnar on Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: Ben Shapiro lies about Omicron and vaccines

Post by K Graham »

ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 am
We knew as early as April 2020 that Covid eradication was not going to be possible. I remember people on this board who claimed that Australia and New Zealand were proof that Covid eradication was possible.
This is a lie. No one ever said COVID would be "eradicated." This is just a straw man you create to make it seem like you were actually right about something regarding the pandemic when in reality you've been wrong on quite literally everything you've predicted.
ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 am
We also had reputable epidemiologists telling us that shutting down schools would not be worth the long term costs we're going to see in childhood depression and illiteracy.
No, you likely had a few fringe doctors disagree with the consensus of the scientific community at large that insisted virtual learning was a mitigating measure that would save lives. And it did. How many people do you think should be sacrificed just so kids can play with friends at school? They're still getting their education virtually. And the theory that kids would be dumber by doing school online proved to be false. In fact my A/B son got straight A's during COVID. And you're missing the key point that many schools chose to shut down during Trump's final year in office. Blaming the Left or Biden or whatever just makes you an idiot.
ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 am
And yet anyone who presented data against school shutdowns was quickly shut down as having blood on their hands, due in large part to the fact that the Democrat party does whatever the teachers union tells them to do.
Wrong again. You sound like a babbling idiot.
ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 am
Why would they ever go back to work if they're getting paid to stay home?
This is also a lie. No one is getting paid to stay home. People are choosing of their own free will not to go to work and every poll indicates COVID is the primary reason. They stay at home because they don't want to become part of the problem in getting or spreading the virus but they also stay home because they can afford to.
ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 am
There are millions of people in the undeveloped world who are actually starving to death due to Covid shutdowns.
This is a lie. But even if true, since when do you care about black and brown people from Trump's "shithole countries."
ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 am
Even China has now admitted that Covid did not originate in a wet market
Oh so now suddenly you believe China only when it is convenient to your narrative? To admit this would mean they're responsible, which is something they want to deny.
ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 am
yet anyone who mentioned the possibility that Covid originated due to a Wuhan lab leak was promptly banned from Facebook, attacked as anti Chinese racist and removed from the public square.
The scientific consensus is that the virus is unlikely to have been created in a lab. And since you pretend to care what science says, and pretend to respect credible virologists, then here is a recent report just two months ago from an MIT virologist:

How a veteran virologist found fresh evidence to back up the theory that covid jumped from animals to humans in a notorious Chinese market—rather than emerged from a lab leak.
ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 am
There's been an extensive effort to shut down any scientific debate or evidence that does not follow the current regime. Instead of being a neutral manner of finding the truth, science and in particular the WHO and CDC have become a high priesthood that can shut down and suppress any information that doesn't fit their hypotheses.
These are remarks from a partisan fool who cannot come to grips with the fact that the CDC has been independent and even throughout the Trump administration. The Biden administration takes its direction from the scientific community, not vice versa. Trump got pissed because he couldn't get the scientists to push his idiotic claims and now you're whining because Biden is actually acting like a responsible President by doing everything Trump refused simply because he wanted to get reelected.

ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 am
We first had Kamala Harris on the debate stage saying she wouldn't take any vaccine developed under President Trump.
Why are you lying about this still? What she said is she would take any vaccine with FDA approval or recommended by the CDC, but she wouldn't take a vaccine that was being pushed by Trump alone. This was at a time when Trump was alleging a vaccine would be fast paced and ready before the 2020 election.
ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 am
Now anyone who regardless of their own vaccination status does not support vaccine passports and vaccine mandates is considered an antivaxxer.
Not necessarily antivaxxers, but definitely idiots.
ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 am
Now we're starting to see Omicron spread in places with very high vaccination rates infecting people who have recently gotten booster shots.
Which only happened because we didn't get enough people vaccinated prior to mutation. And is irrelevant anyway since vaccination protects those with COVID significantly. It's like you've ignored everything everyone has been saying in this thread.
ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 am
And we're seeing the same failed policies of schools closing, curfews, and lockdowns implemented.
Failed how? What "lockdowns"? Saying schools "closed" is just another lie. It is also hypocritical coming from a Right Winger. The Right has been pushing homeschooling for more than a decade now, arguing that it produces smarter children. But then suddenly when it is politically convenient, they argue that it causes psychological trauma to depress children. You people have been making this argument for two years now but the data doesn't support it.
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal" - Ajax18
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