Russian Invasion of Ukraine

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honorentheos
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by honorentheos »

Physics Guy wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:57 pm
I'd be inclined to believe the Russians' story just because it's more embarrassing to their navy than damage from enemy action would be, except that I can't put it past the ineptness of Russian propaganda to fail to realize this.
Depending on the target audience, I assume it plays better to the population being fed a false narrative about Russian justness and greatness that they acted out of caution to a fire than they had a major warship damaged by Ukrainian nationals fighting against the invasion. The domestic disinformation campaign is tangled.
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine

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Physics Guy wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:57 pm
I'd be inclined to believe the Russians' story just because it's more embarrassing to their navy than damage from enemy action would be, except that I can't put it past the ineptness of Russian propaganda to fail to realize this.
I doubt whether the Russian navy is worried about PR in the normal sense of that term - where the P stands for 'public' and the R for 'relations'. It is more likely that in their case the P represents 'Putin'. The idea of having to tell Putin that they let the nasty Nazi Ukrainians blow holes in his (apparently much treasured) flagship is a terrifying prospect for them. Better to say it was 'an accident' and then some low-ranking ratings can be punished after the time it takes for an 'investigation'.
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Chap »

They did it!

The Russians had only three ships in this class. And the Ukrainians have sunk one of them, the pride of the Black Sea fleet!

Russia says Moskva cruiser has sunk after reported Ukrainian missile strike
Russia’s flagship cruiser Moskva has sunk in “stormy seas” while being towed to a port in the Black Sea, the Russian defence ministry has announced.

The Ukrainian southern military command claimed late on Thursday to have struck the Moskva with Neptune anti-ship missiles, causing it to start sinking and forcing the crew to abandon ship.

Russia’s defence ministry initially denied reports that it had sunk and claimed the fires had been extinguished. Four Russian ships that had gone to the Moskva’s rescue were being hampered by stormy weather and by ammunition blowing up onboard, it said.

But late on Friday, the ministry said in a statement: “The cruiser ship Moskva lost its stability when it was towed to the port because of the damage to the ship’s hull that it received during the fire from the detonation of ammunition. In stormy sea conditions, the ship sank”

The apparent attack and sinking of the flagship – 50 days after Putin launched his invasion of Ukraine – represents a symbolic blow to the Kremlin. The Moskva was the pride of Russia’s Black Sea naval fleet and the most prestigious vessel involved in the war against Ukraine.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine

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Chap wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:29 pm
They did it!

The Russians had only three ships in this class. And the Ukrainians have sunk one of them, the pride of the Black Sea fleet!

Russia says Moskva cruiser has sunk after reported Ukrainian missile strike
Russia’s flagship cruiser Moskva has sunk in “stormy seas” while being towed to a port in the Black Sea, the Russian defence ministry has announced.

The Ukrainian southern military command claimed late on Thursday to have struck the Moskva with Neptune anti-ship missiles, causing it to start sinking and forcing the crew to abandon ship.

Russia’s defence ministry initially denied reports that it had sunk and claimed the fires had been extinguished. Four Russian ships that had gone to the Moskva’s rescue were being hampered by stormy weather and by ammunition blowing up onboard, it said.

But late on Friday, the ministry said in a statement: “The cruiser ship Moskva lost its stability when it was towed to the port because of the damage to the ship’s hull that it received during the fire from the detonation of ammunition. In stormy sea conditions, the ship sank”

The apparent attack and sinking of the flagship – 50 days after Putin launched his invasion of Ukraine – represents a symbolic blow to the Kremlin. The Moskva was the pride of Russia’s Black Sea naval fleet and the most prestigious vessel involved in the war against Ukraine.
Awww did little Vlad lose one of his boats?

Russian Warship go “F” yourself and Slava Ukraini!
Slava Ukraini!
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MeDotOrg
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine

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Jersey Girl wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:24 pm
Awww did little Vlad lose one of his boats?

Russian Warship go “F” yourself and Slava Ukraini!
The Russian Navy has very few aircraft carriers, and their carrier based aircraft are not as capable as U.S. carrier planes. Their navy is not concerned with the same type of force projection as the U.S. Navy.

Other than aircraft carriers, Cruisers are the biggest ships in their Navy, and really carry most of the burden of their surface ship posture. There are 2 classes of Russian Cruisers: Kirov and Slava. Kirov is nuclear powered, Slava is non-nuclear. This Cruiser was a Slava class, but this is still a very formidable weapon. And I would agree that it is even more embarrassing if it was an ammunition explosion on the ship.

This was a major naval asset. I know you were joking about Vlad losing his little boat, but whether the Ukrainians were responsible or not, this is both an embarrassment and a grave concern for the Russian Navy.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine

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MeDotOrg wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:16 am
Jersey Girl wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:24 pm
Awww did little Vlad lose one of his boats?

Russian Warship go “F” yourself and Slava Ukraini!
The Russian Navy has very few aircraft carriers, and their carrier based aircraft are not as capable as U.S. carrier planes. Their navy is not concerned with the same type of force projection as the U.S. Navy.

Other than aircraft carriers, Cruisers are the biggest ships in their Navy, and really carry most of the burden of their surface ship posture. There are 2 classes of Russian Cruisers: Kirov and Slava. Kirov is nuclear powered, Slava is non-nuclear. This Cruiser was a Slava class, but this is still a very formidable weapon. And I would agree that it is even more embarrassing if it was an ammunition explosion on the ship.

This was a major naval asset. I know you were joking about Vlad losing his little boat, but whether the Ukrainians were responsible or not, this is both an embarrassment and a grave concern for the Russian Navy.
The Russian Navy has exactly 1 aircraft carrier in service right now. We've got 11 Nimitz class in service which are far superior. They haven't got crap compared to us. Not that it matters in the current situation. Just mentioning it.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Jersey Girl »

Just for general purposes, I want to see Putin's head on a bloody stick but not before he stands trial and is sentenced for war crimes. Actually, I'll take it any way I can get it. I mean it. His fat face dripping with blood on a stick.

And that's where it's at. I need to repent.
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by K Graham »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:56 am
MeDotOrg wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:16 am

The Russian Navy has very few aircraft carriers, and their carrier based aircraft are not as capable as U.S. carrier planes. Their navy is not concerned with the same type of force projection as the U.S. Navy.

Other than aircraft carriers, Cruisers are the biggest ships in their Navy, and really carry most of the burden of their surface ship posture. There are 2 classes of Russian Cruisers: Kirov and Slava. Kirov is nuclear powered, Slava is non-nuclear. This Cruiser was a Slava class, but this is still a very formidable weapon. And I would agree that it is even more embarrassing if it was an ammunition explosion on the ship.

This was a major naval asset. I know you were joking about Vlad losing his little boat, but whether the Ukrainians were responsible or not, this is both an embarrassment and a grave concern for the Russian Navy.
The Russian Navy has exactly 1 aircraft carrier in service right now. We've got 11 Nimitz class in service which are far superior. They haven't got crap compared to us. Not that it matters in the current situation. Just mentioning it.
True, but Russia's enemies aren't separated from them by large bodies of water, so it doesn't really make sense for them to invest in aircraft carriers. We on the other hand, are literally on the other side of the world separated from all our potential enemies by thousands of miles of oceans, which is why we invested so much into that technology.
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Jersey Girl »

K Graham wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:08 am
Jersey Girl wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:56 am


The Russian Navy has exactly 1 aircraft carrier in service right now. We've got 11 Nimitz class in service which are far superior. They haven't got crap compared to us. Not that it matters in the current situation. Just mentioning it.
True, but Russia's enemies aren't separated from them by large bodies of water, so it doesn't really make sense for them to invest in aircraft carriers. We on the other hand, are literally on the other side of the world separated from all our potential enemies by thousands of miles of oceans, which is why we invested so much into that technology.
We've got a carrier strike group deployed in Japan.
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by MeDotOrg »

This sinking of the Moskva seems to be part of a theme in this war: High value targets being taken out by anti-[pick your platform] weapons. If the Ukrainians did sink it with a Neptune missile, this is not some U.S. superweapon. This was developed by the Ukrainian military, ironically originally based on the Russian K-35 missile, but with upgraded Ukrainian electronics and guidance system.

The way that weapons development is progressing, I don't know if it makes sense to build an aircraft carrier and expect it to survive for 30 years.
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