January 6th Committee alleges Trump 'criminal conspiracy'

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Binger
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Re: January 6th Committee alleges Trump 'criminal conspiracy'

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Doctor Steuss wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:46 pm
Binger wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:37 pm
All fair and reasonable.

I did not read or listen to the entirety of both trials.

I don't think anyone is arguing that these ding dongs were dumb suckers, at best. Most likely, they were nefarious criminals. The issue was always the sequence and role of the FBI and the informants, which, were approximately 5 of the 20 and they may have been the leaders.
Upon looking a bit more, the defense claimed that there were at least 12 informants. That kind of begs the question though of why would informants be getting indicted/tried (trialed? No idea what the right term is, lol). It appears that 3-or-so were definitely imbedded agents.

I think it does kind of pose an ethical pretzel of sorts. Would these dudes have been part of a plot, if it hadn't been for the roll the informants played? But, is the mere fact that they were willing to join in on a plot enough to warrant nipping it in the bud?

There seems to be an element of entrapment in it -- but at the same time, these dudes seemed primed to join in on someone's little revolution crusade. Sort of a Minority Report... but dumb.
A fair and reasonable take. Thanks, Steuss.

Also, the defense was limited in what they could present as a defense in the second trial.

12 informants with some embedded? Christ. Yes these guys were assclowns. Yes, that is entrapment and it is problematic no matter the verdict.
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Re: January 6th Committee alleges Trump 'criminal conspiracy'

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:49 pm
Binger wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:00 pm


Broken up by the FBI? Or organized by the FBI?

Jesus. F. Christ.
Reading the article before a hot take might help with deets:
The investigation began when Army veteran Dan Chappel joined a Michigan paramilitary group and became alarmed when he heard talk about killing police. He agreed to become an FBI informant and spent the summer of 2020 getting close to Fox and others, secretly recording conversations and participating in drills at “shoot houses” in Wisconsin and Michigan.


- Doc
Yes. And there is exactly the problem. He got close to them before the fednapping was planned. He was involved in the plan. That is the issue, no?
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Re: January 6th Committee alleges Trump 'criminal conspiracy'

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Investigators and informants obtained hundreds of hours of recordings of the defendants during the investigation. Croft, who talked about setting off explosives at the governor’s house and shooting her security detail, was heard saying, “You wanna terrorize people? I’m gonna terrorize people.”
- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: January 6th Committee alleges Trump 'criminal conspiracy'

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:15 pm
Investigators and informants obtained hundreds of hours of recordings of the defendants during the investigation. Croft, who talked about setting off explosives at the governor’s house and shooting her security detail, was heard saying, “You wanna terrorize people? I’m gonna terrorize people.”
- Doc
And what did the dozen embedded feds say leading up to that comment?
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Re: January 6th Committee alleges Trump 'criminal conspiracy'

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Binger wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:18 pm
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:15 pm


- Doc
And what did the dozen embedded feds say leading up to that comment?
A dozen, you say?

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: January 6th Committee alleges Trump 'criminal conspiracy'

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:42 pm
Binger wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:18 pm


And what did the dozen embedded feds say leading up to that comment?
A dozen, you say?

- Doc
Yes. Steuss posted that it could be up to 12. He also used 5 as the number of agents/informants. I like to call them the fednappers.
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Re: January 6th Committee alleges Trump 'criminal conspiracy'

Post by Doctor Steuss »

The 12 number for informants was apparently from a filing by Frank's attorney back in July 2021. He said that the government had shared ID numbers linked to 12 confidential informants (but only information on one of them).

Unrelated (but related), Frank's story makes my heart hurt. My read on him is that he seems like a really bright guy, who got an education in psychology likely (perhaps subconsciously) to figure himself out. History of addiction (self-medication), and this plot may have been part of a search by him to commit suicide without actually committing suicide. One of those instances where you can't help but wonder what the outcome may have been with easier and more affordable access to mental health services in our country.

As a correction to something I said earlier, the number of imbedded agents was actually 2, not 3. I'm sorry for the mistake. I wrongfully assumed Jenny Plunk was an agent. So 2 of the known 5 informants were agents.
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Re: January 6th Committee alleges Trump 'criminal conspiracy'

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Binger wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:48 pm
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:42 pm


A dozen, you say?

- Doc
Yes. Steuss posted that it could be up to 12. He also used 5 as the number of agents/informants. I like to call them the fednappers.
So, you’re asserting a fact without fact checking your source, which happens to be a board member. You should meditate on this.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: January 6th Committee alleges Trump 'criminal conspiracy'

Post by Binger »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:26 pm
Binger wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:48 pm


Yes. Steuss posted that it could be up to 12. He also used 5 as the number of agents/informants. I like to call them the fednappers.
So, you’re asserting a fact without fact checking your source, which happens to be a board member. You should meditate on this.

- Doc
I was not asserting a fact so much. I was acknowledging a point made by a board member without being a nuisance. I mean, we were having a conversation with board members, right? My meditation is complete.
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Re: January 6th Committee alleges Trump 'criminal conspiracy'

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Binger wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 9:28 pm
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:26 pm


So, you’re asserting a fact without fact checking your source, which happens to be a board member. You should meditate on this.

- Doc
I was not asserting a fact so much. I was acknowledging a point made by a board member without being a nuisance. I mean, we were having a conversation with board members, right? My meditation is complete.
So, are you still at 12 informants?

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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