doubtingthomas wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:19 pm
Xenophon wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:12 pm
Even if we ignore that they are purposefully designed to just give Russia further inroads for takeover later and also presented in a way for Putin to try to shift blame for his actions ("see how unreasonable this Zelensky guy is?!?!") this is a pretty simple set of demands to say no to and then get back to the negotiation table.
But at this moment none of that matters. What urgently matters is human life. The war (or invasion) must end at any cost. Blaming Putin won't end the war.
But what if you have to sacrifice every advantage you currently have to save lives presently and that decision winds up costing more lives in the long run. The situation is way too complex to come in with that kind of black and white thinking. It is highly likely that capitulating and
ending the war won't actually mark an end to hostility. Right now Ukraine has a ton of needed support from a large portion of the world and if they are to preserve their independence now is likely their best shot. I don't fault them for standing up for themselves.
A nice history lesson for you on the independence of Ukraine and why they actually agreed to give up all those juicy nukes they had. The most relevant bit:
1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances
To solidify security commitments to Ukraine, the United States, Russia, and the United Kingdom signed the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances on December 5, 1994. A political agreement in accordance with the principles of the Helsinki Accords, the memorandum included security assurances against the threat or use of force against Ukraine’s territory or political independence. The countries promised to respect the sovereignty and existing borders of Ukraine. Parallel memorandums were signed for Belarus and Kazakhstan as well. In response, Ukraine officially acceded to the NPT as a non-nuclear weapon state on December 5, 1994. That move met the final condition for ratification of START, and on the same day, the five START states-parties exchanged instruments of ratification, bringing the treaty into force.
doubtingthomas wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:19 pm
Does Russia want to destroy Ukraine?
Putin has stated his ultimate goal is to regain the former glory and territories of the USSR (there was even a snippet about it in the article you posted) so he likely won't truly stop until he is satisfied with that goal. Even if he promised nothing but sunshine and puppies for Ukraine I think it is fairly safe to not take him at his word. Given their previous numerous violations and even the constant "we're definitely not invading" mantra up until the point they were kicking in the door.