The Crimes of Putin

[Kishkumen]

The real reason why that feckless and incompetent weasel, crook, and pervert, Donald Trump, loves Putin is that they are birds of a feather. Putin has been a corrupt, murderous man for a very long time, and these are the qualities that Trump admires in him. I dedicate this thread to the crimes of Putin. Once we understand the crimes of Putin, we will see what it is that Donald Trump, the two-bit moron who seeded his business by stealing from his own father, admires in the Russian mafia boss.

And we then have to ask: why on earth do Americans who seem to believe they are decent human beings like either man?

I begin not at the beginning, but when Putin was the Deputy Mayor of St. Petersburg:

Deputy Mayor Putin signed thousands of licenses and contracts, legalizing a vast array of exports and transfers. An investigation into his activities by the St. Petersburg city council concluded that Putin had signed contracts before being officially authorized to do so, and at terms that included the payment of substantial commissions of between 25-50 percent to CFER for each contract and license he endorsed (the Legislative Report can be viewed at http://anticompromat.org/putin/salie92.html).

Not only was the legislature concerned about the terms of the contracts, they also cited many instances of non-fulfillment. Citizens were suffering from shortages, especially food. Contracts had been issued for raw materials to go abroad in exchange for food but the contracted supplies were not arriving or arriving in incomplete shipments. A parliamentary investigation, the Sal’ye Commission, was convened to investigate the shortages and state contracts. The Sal’ye commission requested that Putin produce the contracts and licenses he authorized. Putin refused to cooperate and after being subpoenaed he released only 12 of the thousands of contracts he signed, said Dawisha.

The Sal’ye commission investigation of Putin found that there were no or negligible penalties levied against businesses that breached agreements; businesses receiving contracts held close ties to officials in the mayor’s office; most of the contracts were improperly prepared and could not stand up in a court of law; huge commissions were authorized on contracts; and firms vanished shortly after contract payments were made. Hundreds of pages of documents were recently published, on Marina Sal’ye Facebook page, days after her death. Yet Putin never suffered any legal consequences for the details uncovered by the Salye Commission, despite the fact that the St. Petersburg legislature’s report called for his firing, Dawisha observed.

Putin was also implicated in a criminal investigation by German authorities in the early 2000s into the St. Petersburg Real Estate Holding Company, called SPAG. The Germans charged that SPAG had been used to launder money out of, and into, St. Petersburg from a variety of sources, including the Cali cartel. Putin was a member of the SPAG advisory board and his name on the masthead attracted Western investors to St. Petersburg. Dawisha asserted that Putin provided protection for his co-conspirators when contracts were not fulfilled, and though legal actions were taken against SPAG, none of the Russian participants were indicted (see Duparc, Le Monde, May 26, 2000 and Belton, Moscow Times, May 19, 2003).

The two cases that had produced criminal investigations (#114128, in which his role in providing a fuel monopoly to the St. Petersburg Fuel Company—a company with alleged ties to the Tambov crime family; and #18/95-238278, in which he was alleged to have used funds from the Mayor’s contingency fund for acquisition of personal property) against Putin were delayed for years and ultimately dropped. “By the time the case was to be tried,” Dawisha said, “Putin was able to claim presidential immunity.” Of the many citations now available for documenting these and other instances of Putin’s corruption, Dawisha cited Nikitinsky, Novaya gazeta, March 23, 2000; Sal’ye, Novaya gazeta, March 22, 2012; and Mukhin, www.zaks.ru/news/archive/view/83713.

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publicatio ... -it-matter

[Kishkumen]

Here is a good article on the many critics that Putin has silenced through murder:

https://www.businessinsider.com/list-of ... 016-3?IR=T

Here is the list of victims from the article:

Mikhail Lesin
Alexander Litvinenko
Anna Politkovskaya
Natalia Estemirova
Stanislav Markelov
Anastasia Baburova
Boris Nemtsov
Boris Berezovsky
Paul Klebnikov
Sergei Yushenkov

Note that this incomplete list comes from 2016.

[Moksha]

Here is a good article on the many critics that Putin has silenced through murder:

No wonder Trump idolizes Putin.

[Gadianton]

And we then have to ask: why on earth do Americans who seem to believe they are decent human beings like either man?

My answer is glorifying the negative hero in American media. I've always said the best example is the WWF (now WWE). Up through the 80s, the good guys were the ones who may have been wild and liked to party, but they followed the rules and won because of their talent and hard work -- say your prayers and take your vitamins. The bad guys had to cheat to win. Somewhere in the 90s and 00s, the wrestlers the audience cheered became the dirt bags who cheated and disrespected the rules, and the ones who played by the rules were self-righteous and hypocritical. Even Vince McMahan had to turn heel to appease his audience. He said it was a spur-of-the-moment decision based on audience feedback when he had the mic in the ring (for some reason that escapes me). Since most right-wingers have been WWF fans most of their lives, that already explains a good percentage.

But television has gone the route of celebrating moral gray and presenting more complex plots where the bad guys are often better than the good guys. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of all of it. But people apparently can't distinguish fantasy from reality very well.

And even though ldsfreedom forum is unlikely to be aware of Grant Hardy, Grant hit a home run with his Reader's Guide. Moroni, the "war crimes" hero. That's exactly what they see in Putin. I took a look at that forum after the war started and it's generally pro Putin. Putin is non-nonsense, shuts down new social norms and gets a messy job done.

Liberals are more or less on the same page. Excusing Joseph Smith because "life is messy" and so, Joseph Smith's story might not be morally clean, it might get bloody, but that moral complexity becomes a more interesting plotline, and so Mormonism becomes true because the Book of Mormon is a complex, morally ambiguous story like Breaking Bad or Ozark in more recent years, or Fight Club, a right-wing Christian favorite, back then.

So think about how Joseph Smith can still be the hero after polygamy, all his deceit, and all the friends he shafted, and Moroni after all of his war crimes, and that's why Trump and Putin can also be heroes in the eyes of American viewers, and especially Mormon viewers.

[K Graham]

His crimes are real. Our best hope is that someone takes him out, or at least he gets voted out in the 2024 election.

[Kishkumen]

My answer is glorifying the negative hero in American media. I've always said the best example is the WWF (now WWE). Up through the 80s, the good guys were the ones who may have been wild and liked to party, but they followed the rules and won because of their talent and hard work -- say your prayers and take your vitamins. The bad guys had to cheat to win. Somewhere in the 90s and 00s, the wrestlers the audience cheered became the dirt bags who cheated and disrespected the rules, and the ones who played by the rules were self-righteous and hypocritical. Even Vince McMahan had to turn heel to appease his audience. He said it was a spur-of-the-moment decision based on audience feedback when he had the mic in the ring (for some reason that escapes me). Since most right-wingers have been WWF fans most of their lives, that already explains a good percentage.

But television has gone the route of celebrating moral gray and presenting more complex plots where the bad guys are often better than the good guys. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of all of it. But people apparently can't distinguish fantasy from reality very well.

And even though ldsfreedom forum is unlikely to be aware of Grant Hardy, Grant hit a home run with his Reader's Guide. Moroni, the "war crimes" hero. That's exactly what they see in Putin. I took a look at that forum after the war started and it's generally pro Putin. Putin is non-nonsense, shuts down new social norms and gets a messy job done.

Liberals are more or less on the same page. Excusing Joseph Smith because "life is messy" and so, Joseph Smith's story might not be morally clean, it might get bloody, but that moral complexity becomes a more interesting plotline, and so Mormonism becomes true because the Book of Mormon is a complex, morally ambiguous story like Breaking Bad or Ozark in more recent years, or Fight Club, a right-wing Christian favorite, back then.

So think about how Joseph Smith can still be the hero after polygamy, all his deceit, and all the friends he shafted, and Moroni after all of his war crimes, and that's why Trump and Putin can also be heroes in the eyes of American viewers, and especially Mormon viewers.

Huh! Interesting thought. Although, I am not sure one can point to much complexity in the case of Trump or Putin. That seems like quite a stretch. I guess I was more taken with the Cyrus as messiah idea, wherein God could choose wicked men to fulfill his plans. Perhaps the two things can work hand in hand. Not only is Cyrus OK because he is working God’s plan, but Cyrus’ wickedness is OK because the end justifies the means? Or the means are just cool and, hey, they work toward God’s plan too? I think you may be onto something here.

Regardless, I have a hard time seeing anything in these men other than opportunism and thuggery.

[huckelberry]

My answer is glorifying the negative hero in American media. I've always said the best example is the WWF (now WWE). Up through the 80s, the good guys were the ones who may have been wild and liked to party, but they followed the rules and won because of their talent and hard work -- say your prayers and take your vitamins. The bad guys had to cheat to win. Somewhere in the 90s and 00s, the wrestlers the audience cheered became the dirt bags who cheated and disrespected the rules, and the ones who played by the rules were self-righteous and hypocritical. Even Vince McMahan had to turn heel to appease his audience. He said it was a spur-of-the-moment decision based on audience feedback when he had the mic in the ring (for some reason that escapes me). Since most right-wingers have been WWF fans most of their lives, that already explains a good percentage.

But television has gone the route of celebrating moral gray and presenting more complex plots where the bad guys are often better than the good guys. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of all of it. But people apparently can't distinguish fantasy from reality very well.


And even though ldsfreedom forum is unlikely to be aware of Grant Hardy, Grant hit a home run with his Reader's Guide. Moroni, the "war crimes" hero. That's exactly what they see in Putin. I took a look at that forum after the war started and it's generally pro Putin. Putin is non-nonsense, shuts down new social norms and gets a messy job done.

Liberals are more or less on the same page. Excusing Joseph Smith because "life is messy" and so, Joseph Smith's story might not be morally clean, it might get bloody, but that moral complexity becomes a more interesting plotline, and so Mormonism becomes true because the Book of Mormon is a complex, morally ambiguous story like Breaking Bad or Ozark in more recent years, or Fight Club, a right-wing Christian favorite, back then.

So think about how Joseph Smith can still be the hero after polygamy, all his deceit, and all the friends he shafted, and Moroni after all of his war crimes, and that's why Trump and Putin can also be heroes in the eyes of American viewers, and especially Mormon viewers.

Huh! Interesting thought. Although, I am not sure one can point to much complexity in the case of Trump or Putin. That seems like quite a stretch. I guess I was more taken with the Cyrus as messiah idea, wherein God could choose wicked men to fulfill his plans. Perhaps the two things can work hand in hand. Not only is Cyrus OK because he is working God’s plan, but Cyrus’ wickedness is OK because the end justifies the means? Or the means are just cool and, hey, they work toward God’s plan too? I think you may be onto something here.

Regardless, I have a hard time seeing anything in these men other than opportunism and thuggery.

Kishkumen

Cyrus's wickedness? I am a bit lost, what wickedness was that? I am not aware of biblical criticism of the mans character. Are there other historical records of the mans depravity?

Yes the Trump christians have repeated bad messiah Cyrus trope as if the more Trump lied the more like a messiah he is.
I think there is a part of people which has been tapped into which likes lies and likes kicking other people around.
Gadianton makes some interesting observations about peoples expectations being influenced by popular stories. I am not sure if distinguishing fiction and reality is the problem there. I think with justification people expect that the values in stories to reflect real life values. Maybe exaggeration and unexpected twists and turns creates a distance from reality but people root for the kind of people they admire.

[ajax18]

Putin has been getting away this for a long time now. And the fact is that Putin launched a immoral and illegal war under Biden's reign, not Trump. The 1980's called and asked for their foreign policy back. Every voter who brought that line during the election of 2012 debate is in part to blame for what is happening now. This is what happens when the US defunds the military, goes into isolationist mode, leaves a vacuum of power on the world stage, and displays a foreign policy of apology and weakness that the frail and demented Joe Biden has.

Tell Vladmir that I'll have more flexibility after my next election.

[Gadianton]

Although, I am not sure one can point to much complexity in the case of Trump or Putin.

There wasn't much complexity to Stone Cold Steve Austin either. And really, there isn't much complexity to Moroni, but in the hands of a good deconstructionist, anything is possible. I'm not saying that anti-hero narratives are all complex, in the case of the WWE clearly that isn't the case. I'm saying that it's an exploration of narrative that has entertained all of us in the last twenty years or so, from rednecks at Summer Slam to literature nerds reading Blanchard and Derrida. Even that one show about a rich asshole who fires his low-ranking underlings and everyone is rooting for the rich guy counts.

[Gadianton]

And the fact is that Putin launched a immoral and illegal war under Biden's reign, not Trump

Which is unfortunate for Putin, as he was clearly hoping Trump would win and finish the job of breaking America away from Europe and NATO, which would make his move easier to accomplish.

c'mon, get real Ajax/Tucker, "Maybe I'm on Russia's side because I am!"