Boosie Speaks Truth About Transgender Swimmer

[Mrs. Atlanticmike]

Does he need an assistant?

That’s grossly inappropriate, Shades. Free speech is your right, but just because you are technically allowed to be that offensive under our rules doesn’t mean it’s acceptable in a conversation.

Dr. Shades, Mike and I started laughing when we read what you posted. Don't let miserable people steal your happiness. Lem is devoid of humor.

[Marcus]

From the link provided by Res:

Yes, and that's why the governing bodies for each sport should be permitted to determine the eligibility requirements for their sport.

A process which is in flux itself. This 3/15 espn article gave some interesting history:

On Jan. 19, 2022, the NCAA announced it would adopt a sports-specific approach that would evaluate national governing body policies and adopt them for NCAA eligibility. At the time, USA Swimming's policy for elite athletes deferred to the International Olympic Committee policy, but that was also in flux due to an announcement in November 2021 that empowered each international federation to create their own policies, though the IOC would provide guidance.

The NCAA announcement was met with condemnation and confusion by those who felt Thomas should be eligible to swim and by those who felt she should be ineligible.

"This update complicates the NCAA policy in a way that I don't believe they are equipped to handle," duathlete and transgender inclusion advocate Chris Mosier said at the time. "Given that many [national governing bodies] have not created policies for transgender athletes and that policies vary from sport NGB to NGB, tracking compliance is going to be a nightmare for the NCAA. This creates many different standards for trans athletes."

Hogshead-Makar also expressed dismay. "The new NCAA policy sounds a lot like the old one," she said. "The board hasn't resolved the intractable balancing between fairness, playing safety and inclusion. They failed women by not prioritizing fairness."

For Ivy League executive director Robin Harris, the influence of Thomas' success and attention was apparent. "It's clear to me that the publicity and the success that Lia [Thomas] has been having elevated this issue at the NCAA," Harris said. "I do believe that the NCAA missed an opportunity to be a leader, and instead tried to avoid having the NCAA policy be the focus of the attention, because Lia has met the NCAA policy that had been in existence for over a decade."

On Feb. 1, USA Swimming shared a new policy governing eligibility for transgender swimmers. The policy applies to USA Swimming members, designated elite events (which did not include the NCAA championships), and swimmers wanting to be eligible for American records, which begins with the 13-14 age group. USA Swimming's policy requires transgender women who want to compete in the women's category to present evidence that they have no competitive advantage to an independent panel for review and to maintain a testosterone level below 5 nanomoles per liter for 36 consecutive months. That level is significantly below the previous standard of 10 nanomoles per liter used by the IOC until November, and the time required to demonstrate the lower level is tripled.

If the NCAA adopted those rules for the 2022 winter championships -- as the Jan. 19 announcement opened the door for -- it would have been impossible for Thomas to compete for a national championship. Thomas has said she began hormone therapy in May 2019, or 34 months prior to the 2022 NCAA championships.

But on Feb. 10, the NCAA announced that it would not adopt the new USA Swimming standards for the 2022 women's swimming and diving championships. Instead, transgender athletes compliant with the previous standard would need to submit a one-time test showing a testosterone level below 10 nanomoles per liter. The announcement cleared the way for Thomas to participate this week in Atlanta, where she is scheduled to compete in the 100, 200 and 500-yard freestyle.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... nal-debate

[Mrs. Atlanticmike]

...she is 5’ 8”...

I'll have to let my right-wing friend know that. I learned about this from him. He came out in the morning a few days ago all spun up over it. 6'4", 225 pounds. I didn't question it enough to look into it, but that seemed a bit hefty for a swimmer. What I told him is that I totally understand how other competitors don't think it's fair. I would like to know WWTD? How would Donald Trump save competitive sports?

If it does become a trend, and 1st, second, and third are always trans or even just 1st is always trans, well; I'd say the sporting world will have to figure it out. Competitors can vote with their feet and and move on to something else. But not all sports persons are interested in dominating a competition where they know they have an unfair advantage, and so there is no guarantee that this is bound to be a trend. I'd say let the market figure it out over time. One possible outcome along the lines of Steuss is the men's class will become unrestricted. That could light a fire under both women and men competitors.

Anna Kalandadze is 5'9"
Mike Schnur is 6'1"
Catherine Buroker is 5' 10"

Screenshot_20220323-125230_Samsung Internet.jpg (213.38 KiB) Viewed 642 times

[Don Ja'Lin]

I'll have to let my right-wing friend know that. I learned about this from him. He came out in the morning a few days ago all spun up over it. 6'4", 225 pounds. I didn't question it enough to look into it, but that seemed a bit hefty for a swimmer. What I told him is that I totally understand how other competitors don't think it's fair. I would like to know WWTD? How would Donald Trump save competitive sports?

If it does become a trend, and 1st, second, and third are always trans or even just 1st is always trans, well; I'd say the sporting world will have to figure it out. Competitors can vote with their feet and and move on to something else. But not all sports persons are interested in dominating a competition where they know they have an unfair advantage, and so there is no guarantee that this is bound to be a trend. I'd say let the market figure it out over time. One possible outcome along the lines of Steuss is the men's class will become unrestricted. That could light a fire under both women and men competitors.

Anna Kalandadze is 5'9"
Mike Schnur is 6'1"
Catherine Buroker is 5' 10"

Screenshot_20220323-125230_Samsung Internet.jpg

Trans women are women.

[Marcus]

The espn article also gave a lot of straightforward information about the current research that is very helpful in understanding the technical aspects of the situation:

"There are two philosophies that are clashing right now," Hogshead-Makar said. "One is an ideology of gender identity and the other one is the idea of science and biology. The ideology is trans women are women. For the most part, people were onboard for the idea that you want transgender people to be welcome in employment and public accommodations. But then there's the biology part of it when it comes to medical treatment, or women's sports. That ideology is not fact. It is not a fact that trans women are women."

The science of transgender athletes is an evolving space, but there are a few things that are known: testosterone is, on average, many times higher in those assigned male at birth compared to those assigned female at birth; testosterone confers physiological and metabolic advantages such as increased muscle mass, lung capacity, increased height, etc.; testosterone suppression effectively reduces levels in transgender women to be on par with those of cisgender women after approximately one year.

"We know that testosterone is not always directly reflective of athletic performance, although it certainly may play a role in some athletic endeavors," said pediatric endocrinologist Jason Klein, who works with kids, adolescents and young adults in his position at NYU Langone Health.

There have been some studies that examine the effects of hormone therapy on athletic performance and physiological retention of strength. The first, which was conducted by Joanna Harper and published in 2015, followed a handful of transgender women distance runners. Harper's study -- which she emphasized was a small study -- found that transgender women, after a year of hormone therapy, didn't improve post-transition. If they ranked, say, 15th against the men, then they ranked 15th among women. Despite its size, Harper's study was the first of its kind and provided a baseline for policy frameworks.

Harper also published a review of the existing literature on the topic in 2021. She found that while hemoglobin levels -- or red blood cells carrying oxygen to muscles -- in transgender women decreased with hormone therapy, there was still strength retention after 36 months of hormone therapy. This was in line with a study published in 2019 that evaluated the level of muscle mass lost in transgender women after one year of hormone therapy, which found that transgender women lost just 5%.

Of those studies, only Harper's on distance runners measured results in transgender athletes. They also all focused on transgender adults, often those who transitioned after puberty.

The next closest study to examine outcomes of transgender athletes was done by Christina Roberts, who analyzed available data on transgender members of the military performing situps, pushups and 1.5-mile runs at various stages of hormone therapy. The results showed that within two years, the performance gap between transgender women and cisgender women on pushups and situps disappeared. For the 1.5-mile run, transgender women declined in speed, but still exceeded the performance levels of cisgender women. "I think it shows that statements that, 'Oh no, the trans women will never come down to the level of cis women,' is just not true,'" Roberts said.

"Now, are there some retained anatomic differences? Your average person who's assigned male at birth is taller than your cis female. And so where having narrower hips and longer limbs is an advantage, yeah there's some retained anatomic advantage. On the other hand, we're not banning tall slender-hipped women. Anatomic advantage is an underlying truth in sport."

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... nal-debate

[Mrs. Atlanticmike]

Anna Kalandadze is 5'9"
Mike Schnur is 6'1"
Catherine Buroker is 5' 10"

Screenshot_20220323-125230_Samsung Internet.jpg

Trans women are women.

Marcus is claiming Lia Thomas is 5'8" tall. Anna kalandadze is 5'9" so can you explain the picture I posted a few minutes ago?

Screenshot_20220323-154309_Samsung Internet.jpg (79.44 KiB) Viewed 625 times

[K Graham]

Some great articles covering the science of transgenderism:

Scientific American: Stop Using Phony Science to Justify Transphobia

CNN: Attacks on trans people are also attacks on science itself

Psychology Today: The Science of Transgender Flourishing

Nature: The largest study involving transgender people is providing long-sought insights about their health

[ajax18]

Racism is about treating people in an unfairly different way because of their ethnic origin. It's not anti-racist to pretend that there are not, as a percentage of population, more tall thin blue-eyed blond people in Scandinavia than there are in Guangdong province, China. It's simply dumb.

Try being a sports analyst and mentioning the fact that black people generally have longer limbs compared to the length of their torsos that generally allows them to run faster and jump higher. Try pointing out that Lia Thomas was born a man. You'll be canceled very quickly. You'll be kicked off Twitter and accused of hating black people. You'll be branded a homophobe and a white supremacist.

How do I know? Because I pointed out on this very forum that George Zimmerman didn't have much of a chance trying to outrun Travon Martin. And we all saw the results. Sadly I can't quote them since it's lost.

[Res Ipsa]

Racism is about treating people in an unfairly different way because of their ethnic origin. It's not anti-racist to pretend that there are not, as a percentage of population, more tall thin blue-eyed blond people in Scandinavia than there are in Guangdong province, China. It's simply dumb.

Try being a sports analyst and mentioning the fact that black people generally have longer limbs compared to the length of their torsos that generally allows them to run faster and jump higher. Try pointing out that Lia Thomas was born a man. You'll be canceled very quickly. You'll be kicked off Twitter and accused of hating black people. You'll be branded a homophobe and a white supremacist.

How do I know? Because I pointed out on this very forum that George Zimmerman didn't have much of a chance trying to outrun Travon Martin. And we all saw the results. Sadly I can't quote them since it's lost.

Were you kicked out of something?

[canpakes]

Racism is about treating people in an unfairly different way because of their ethnic origin. It's not anti-racist to pretend that there are not, as a percentage of population, more tall thin blue-eyed blond people in Scandinavia than there are in Guangdong province, China. It's simply dumb.

Try being a sports analyst and mentioning the fact that black people generally have longer limbs compared to the length of their torsos that generally allows them to run faster and jump higher. Try pointing out that Lia Thomas was born a man. You'll be canceled very quickly. You'll be kicked off Twitter and accused of hating black people. You'll be branded a homophobe and a white supremacist.

How do I know? Because I pointed out on this very forum that George Zimmerman didn't have much of a chance trying to outrun Travon Martin.

Your contention is that George Zimmerman wouldn’t be able to outrun Trayvon Martin, because Trayvon was black?

Do you not see the obvious problem with this?