After 1 month: Russia, Ukraine, NATO, sanctions

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
User avatar
Kishkumen
God
Posts: 6121
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: After 1 month: Russia, Ukraine, NATO, sanctions

Post by Kishkumen »

ajax18 wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:53 am
Tucker doesn't like Putin and neither does Trump.
One wouldn’t know, the way both of them have carried his water for years.
He's a brutal dictator. He's wrong for going into Ukraine. But Ukraine put missiles on their border pointed at Russia. This could have been resolved peacefully if Ukraine had just not put missiles on their border, perhaps given up some the eastern territories, and agreed to not join NATO.
Ukraine is a sovereign state. They can apply to join NATO if they want to. This was never about joining NATO, unless you accept that Putin’s intention was always to recover the Russian empire of the past. NATO is only a impediment to imperial goals. Only fools imagine otherwise.
Now what do we do? Do you think Putin is going to just get discouraged and quit? Do you think he's going to resign? I'm not sure you understand how Putin thinks. Russians have always taken heavy casualties. That's not going to stop him.
What WE do is support Ukraine in its fight to defend itself against Russian aggression. The Russians can always decide to overthrow the tyrant, if they can get up the nerve to do so.
The only weakness before tyranny I've seen was first in the withdraw from Afghanistan and the fact that we elected a doddering old fool who belongs in a nursing home as our commander in chief. And this is the man we have negotiating with brutal dictators like Putin, Kim Jong Un, Xi, the Taliban, a man suffering so badly from dementia he literally can't even put a sentence together without a teleprompter or even walk off the stage without help. We can call Putin a lot of names but he's not senile and he's not stupid. Sadly Biden just hasn't been mentally up to the job of maintaining peace and order in the world as Trump was able to do, which the American people should have known. But not only that, the American people still do not realize what worthless institution the United Nations is.
I guess you wrongly imagine that I will take offense at your observations about Biden. I knew Biden was senile before he was elected. The DNC was hell bent on hiding that fact because they believed he was the only candidate they had who could beat Trump AND be acceptable to the neo-liberal plutocrats who really run the show.

The thing is: Trump was infinitely worse than a senile Biden. He is far more corrupt, incompetent, and psychologically dangerous than Biden. You prefer Trump because you haven’t the slightest clue what the rule of law—one of the supreme achievements of Western civilization—is, and you would prefer a tyrant so long as he does not stumble over his words. Scratch that: stumbling over words was not a problem for you when your Dear Leader was doing it.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
Chap
God
Posts: 2308
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:42 am
Location: On the imaginary axis

Re: After 1 month: Russia, Ukraine, NATO, sanctions

Post by Chap »

Kishkumen wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:03 pm
You prefer Trump because you haven’t the slightest clue what the rule of law—one of the supreme achievements of Western civilization—is, and you would prefer a tyrant so long as he does not stumble over his words. Scratch that: stumbling over words was not a problem for you when your Dear Leader was doing it.


(My emphasis)

But ... that wasn't because Trump was senile. It's just that sometimes he don't read so good, like any regular guy who isn't some kind of elitist college professor. And regular guys like to vote for regular guys, stands to reason..

You got a problem with that, Professor?
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
User avatar
Kishkumen
God
Posts: 6121
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: After 1 month: Russia, Ukraine, NATO, sanctions

Post by Kishkumen »

Chap wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:12 pm
(My emphasis)

But ... that wasn't because Trump was senile. It's just that sometimes he don't read so good, like any regular guy who isn't some kind of elitist college professor. And regular guys like to vote for regular guys, stands to reason..

You got a problem with that, Professor?
A regular guy like Joe Biden? Who grew up in Scranton, PA and went to run-of-the-mill universities?

Or Trump, who grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth, thanks to daddy the slum lord, and went to an Ivy League university?

I don’t think the latter comes anywhere close to being a regular guy.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
Chap
God
Posts: 2308
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:42 am
Location: On the imaginary axis

Re: After 1 month: Russia, Ukraine, NATO, sanctions

Post by Chap »

You are of course quite right. My post was satirical in intent.

The problem is, however, that if Trump stumbles over words, it doesn't worry his supporters. If anything, they like him better for it.

But if Biden does, it certainly worries his, as well as people who might otherwise vote for him.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
User avatar
ajax18
God
Posts: 2717
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:12 pm

Re: After 1 month: Russia, Ukraine, NATO, sanctions

Post by ajax18 »

How exactly can the Russian people overthrow Putin? Revolutions rarely succeed. That's like saying the conservative minority could always overthrow their liberal tax lords and their welfare. It's futile.Don't fight unless you can win.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
User avatar
Kishkumen
God
Posts: 6121
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: After 1 month: Russia, Ukraine, NATO, sanctions

Post by Kishkumen »

Chap wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:54 pm
You are of course quite right. My post was satirical in intent.

The problem is, however, that if Trump stumbles over words, it doesn't worry his supporters. If anything, they like him better for it.

But if Biden does, it certainly worries his, as well as people who might otherwise vote for him.
Sorry! I knew you were kidding but I didn’t take time to signal that. I can be lazy in that way. Agreed on all accounts.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
Chap
God
Posts: 2308
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:42 am
Location: On the imaginary axis

Re: After 1 month: Russia, Ukraine, NATO, sanctions

Post by Chap »

ajax18 wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:06 pm
How exactly can the Russian people overthrow Putin? Revolutions rarely succeed. That's like saying the conservative minority could always overthrow their liberal tax lords and their welfare. It's futile.Don't fight unless you can win.
I don't think that anyone who is acquainted with the way Putin's power is exercised is expecting him to be overthrown by a horde of citizens marching on the Kremlin. He has gone to great trouble to make sure that can't happen.

If Putin is overthrown, it is hugely more likely to be an inside Kremlin job, possibly with people high up in the FSB (Russian Federal Security Service) tiring of having Russia led into political and economic disaster by someone who doesn't want to be told anything that he doesn't already think.

(Hmm ... do we know anybody closer at hand who works that way...?)
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
User avatar
Manetho
Valiant B
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:28 am

Re: After 1 month: Russia, Ukraine, NATO, sanctions

Post by Manetho »

Kishkumen wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:03 pm
I knew Biden was senile before he was elected.
Although I won't argue that Biden isn't senile, and I've never been an admirer of his, he may not be as senile as he looks. He has struggled with a stutter his entire life, which is one of the reasons he is awkward when speaking. And having been on the Senate foreign policy committee for years and years, and having put together an experienced State Department, he is probably better suited to handling foreign policy than any other aspect of his job. Since Putin started beating the war drums, I think the administration has handled the situation about as well the US could handle it, given the circumstances.
User avatar
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 9569
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: After 1 month: Russia, Ukraine, NATO, sanctions

Post by Res Ipsa »

ajax18 wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:06 pm
How exactly can the Russian people overthrow Putin? Revolutions rarely succeed. That's like saying the conservative minority could always overthrow their liberal tax lords and their welfare. It's futile.Don't fight unless you can win.
Yeah, it’s impossible for a Revolution to succeed. :roll:
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
honorentheos
God
Posts: 3762
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:15 am

Re: After 1 month: Russia, Ukraine, NATO, sanctions

Post by honorentheos »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:39 pm
ajax18 wrote:
Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:06 pm
How exactly can the Russian people overthrow Putin? Revolutions rarely succeed. That's like saying the conservative minority could always overthrow their liberal tax lords and their welfare. It's futile.Don't fight unless you can win.
Yeah, it’s impossible for a Revolution to succeed. :roll:
I wondered what ajax was thinking here then realized his history timeline goes something like this:
  • *Adam and Eve kicked out of the Garden of Eden in what is now Missouri.
    *Flood and splitting of the continents.
    *Old Testament stuff.
    *Lehi and family go to the Americas.
    * Jesus and New Testament stuff.
    * Nephite civilization destroyed by Lamanites.
    * Vaguely defined period where everyone had swords and shields. Vikings are cool.
    *Pilgrims.
    *Revolutionary War and Founding Fathers. (successful revolution)
    *Civil War (failed revolution).
    * Greatest Generation.
    * Liberals destroy America <-today.
Nevermind that the area of the world where this war is occuring has undergone meaningful revolutions in most of our lifetimes and is being fought because Russia (a nation that exists due to revolutions) didn't like the outcome of the most recent one when Ukrainians kicked out their pro-Russian leaders. What matters is the Confederacy lost to the Union and that's history, folks.

That said the world is better off when we avoid revolution and use voting to accomplish the historic aims of violence. It could be said every election cycle is a form of revolution for more enlightened civilizations. One might almost call the adoption of such progress.
Post Reply