Paradise Split from LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct

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IHAQ
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Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by IHAQ »

doubtingthomas and Res Ipsa, I hope you look back and consider just how far you’ve derailed this thread.

[Moderator note -- this was originally posted in the Terrestial version of the thread and was completely accurate at the time it was posted. -- RI]
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Re: Paradise Split from LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct

Post by Dr. Shades »

B) Legal, not 16. Parents approved.
I can't think of any state in the U.S.A. where the age of consent is 15 or younger. I'm guessing she was in Mexico and it was a long-distance relationship? Did you ever meet her face-to-face?
E) Victim. I was the victim and her family was taking advantage of me.
Hmm. It sounds like her parents were taking advantage of you financially; is that the case? Perhaps hoping you'd marry her so, with the right paperwork, they'd get to enter the U.S.A. legally?
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Re: Paradise Split from LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 4:49 am
Can we now move on?
She was 15?

eta:

From this “Mexican age of consent link” that DT provided earlier:
Mexican states have a “hard” and a “soft” age of consent. The hard age of consent is typically 12 or 14, and intercourse with a person that is younger than this age is considered rape. The soft age of consent is 18 in most states, and intercourse with individuals who are above this age is not punished by law. There is a legal gray area between the two ages of consent in which the crime of estupro may apply. An adult commits estupro by having intercourse through seduction or deceit with an adolescent between these two ages of consent. Although the law is vague about what constitutes seduction or deceit, the typical example is promising the minor that a marriage will occur and then reneging on this promise. While estupro is punishable with jail time, this crime can only be prose­cuted if the minor or her legal guardians present charges, and this is quite uncommon.
And this is the age-by-state minimum marriageable ages from the same link:

Image

- Doc
Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Tue May 03, 2022 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paradise Split from LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 4:23 am
Dr. Shades wrote:
Mon May 02, 2022 9:41 am
Hi doubtingthomas,

In order to get a better handle on what went on, please tell us about the relationship you had with this woman. You already explained she was Mexican.
  1. How old were you, and how old was she, when the relationship began?
  2. What attracted you to each other?
  3. How long did it last?
  4. How and why did it end?

A) 26
B) Legal, not 16. Parents approved.
C) Nice guy. Beauty.
D) One year (late 2020 to 2021)
E) Victim. I was the victim and her family was taking advantage of me. I found her secret Instagram account and I caught her texting with another guy. And I suspect the family had previous connections with "Los Zetas", but I don't know.
Was this a sign of pre-frontal cortex development or the lack of it? I always get a little confused when I’m trying to figure out how mature foreign teen brains are. You know. For science. -_-

DT,

I say this with all due respect. I don’t think you were in therapy, friend.

- Doc
1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
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Re: Paradise Split from LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct

Post by doubtingthomas »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 9:35 am
I can't think of any state in the U.S.A. where the age of consent is 15 or younger.
Oh my God! Seriously? You too?

I said, she was "Legal" and I also said, "Of course, my ex was older when I started to talk to her" [older than 16]
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=155240&start=140

It clearly means she was NOT under 17, but I won't specify any age here.

You guys are obviously trolling and in a very nasty way.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 1:19 pm
And this is the age-by-state minimum marriageable ages from the same link:
Idiots.

And what do marriage laws in Mexico have anything to do? Are you getting married or what?

Have a nice day trolling!

I'll just reply with "I take the 5th" if you guys keep making stupid comments.
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Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by doubtingthomas »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 5:15 am
So, does person grow up sooner if the end result isn’t adult adult decision making?
I think I get it now, but I am still a bit confused.

I said before, ""On average. For many it is around 30. It is around 19 for people in low-income households. We are all different. "

So the average 19 year old in low-income neighborhoods doesn't have an adults adult decision making?

What is an adults adult decision making? Do you mean the average 18 or 19 year old in low-income neighborhoods doesn't have the same adults adult decision making of an average 25 year old?

And would the average 25 year old decision making be the same as a 45 year old? or a 65 year old? It is getting very complicated.

Request
Please ask Shades to carefully read everything before he starts making serious accusations. Defamation is illegal or morally wrong.
Last edited by doubtingthomas on Tue May 03, 2022 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paradise Split from LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct

Post by Res Ipsa »

Moderator Note: posts addressing the issue of the timing of poor people reaching maturity belong in this thread. Posts addressing one-on-one interviews between LDS leaders and children or adolescents should be made in the Terrestial version of this thread.

Thanks.
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Re: Paradise Split from LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct

Post by doubtingthomas »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 1:19 pm
Although the law is vague about what constitutes seduction or deceit, the typical example is promising the minor that a marriage will occur and then reneging on this promise.

And this is the age-by-state minimum marriageable ages from the same link:
Why are you defending Mexican laws? Don't try to make the Mexican laws look good. According to what you just quoted, in Mexico it is legal as long as you don't promise marriage, or do end up marrying her in the future.

And again, I don't understand what the above has anything to do with people living in the US.
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Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by Res Ipsa »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 10:23 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 5:15 am
So, does person grow up sooner if the end result isn’t adult adult decision making?
I think I get it now, but I am still a bit confused.

As I said before, ""On average. For many it is around 30. It is around 19 for people in low-income households. We are all different. "

Would that mean an average 19 year old in low-income neighborhoods doesn't have an adults adult decision making?

What is an adults adult decision making? Do you mean the average 18 or 19 year old in low-income neighborhoods doesn't have the same adults adult decision making of an average 25 year old?

And would the average 25 year old decision making be the same as a 45 year old? or a 65 year old? It is getting very complicated.

Request
Please ask Shades to carefully read everything before he starts making serious accusations. Defamation is illegal or morally wrong.
The subject matter isn't getting very complicated -- it IS complicated. That's why you can't draw the simplistic cause and effect conclusions you keep trying to draw.

No, I don't mean any of the things you say. I'm not making any claim about the average anything of anything. I haven't seen a study that compares the process of brain development of children who grow up in low income households to that of children who grow up in average income households. That would require MRI's taken at frequent intervals starting at the youngest extreme and continuing on until all subjects reach completion. Without that data, there is no way to tell when the brain has physically arrived at its "mature" state.

As to your request, in my opinion your post upthread was poorly worded. It led me to think, at first, that you meant you'd dated someone younger than 16. That didn't make sense, given our earlier conversation, so I ignored it.

But that's if we are interested in when the "brain" finishes its development, i.e., "maturity." But maturity of the brain is not the same thing as maturity of the person. Maturity of the person can't be directly measured, like we can measure the changing volume of brain tissue. People don't come with a "maturity gauge" that displays a number from 1-100 indicating how mature the person is. Maturity is a really a cluster of behaviors, including decision making, emotional regulation, etc. that isn't easy to measure. It means the extent to which the individual has developed traits we expect in an adult as opposed to those of a child or adolescent. It's a concept much more nebulous than measuring the volume of different parts of the brain over time.

What the literature we've both looked at seems to say is that human brains develop at the general pace that they do because the length of the period of plasticity is critical to the person's "maturity" at the end of the process. Speeding up the process doesn't necessarily result in a fully mature adult at a younger age. And slowing down the process doesn't necessarily produce a more mature adult at the end of the process. There is a typical range of time for this development to occur, and going too fast and going too slow appear to have detrimental effect on the maturation of the person.

Maturity of the brain is not the same as maturity of the person, and they are measured in very different ways. Your earlier statements about the young person you dated were describing her maturity, in terms of behavior. Unless you were carrying around a portable MRI and periodically scanning her brain. You literally have no idea where her brain was in terms of development while you were dating her. And you have no idea what her level of "maturity" as a person will be at the end of her brain development.

If you want to learn about any causal connection between growing up poor and brain development, then you need to find a study that investigates that. If you want to learn about the hypothesized effects of growing up poor and later behavior, you need a study that looks at that. What you haven't done is produced any study that says that growing up poor results in the entire brain development process finishing sooner or what the consequences to the person's maturity are.

My only claim is that you've provided no evidence to that supports your claims. I'm not going to make any claim about averages of anything unless I have a source that provides sufficient data to validly reach that kind of conclusion.

As to your other request, as long as a post stays within the rules, it is not my job to police tone or content. I first read your post as saying you dated someone younger than 16, too. But I didn't think that made sense, so I just ignored it. People misunderstand each other's posts here all the time. That's not defamation -- that's a mistake that is easily cleared up by explanation.
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Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by doubtingthomas »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 11:50 pm
It means the extent to which the individual has developed traits we expect in an adult as opposed to those of a child or adolescent.

I understand. To be very clear, I was talking about 19 year olds in low-income neighborhoods. I was not saying that adolescents have the brain of a 25 year old.
Your earlier statements about the young person you dated were describing her maturity, in terms of behavior. Unless you were carrying around a portable MRI and periodically scanning her brain. You literally have no idea where her brain was in terms of development while you were dating her. And you have no idea what her level of "maturity" as a person will be at the end of her brain development.
My guess is that she is close to having a fully developed brain. Her father committed suicide (allegedly) and she did experience some horrible things in Mexico. But as you said, I don't have MRI scans.
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 11:50 pm
I first read your post as saying you dated someone younger than 16, too. But I didn't think that made sense, so I just ignored it. People misunderstand each other's posts here all the time. That's not defamation -- that's a mistake that is easily cleared up by explanation.
\

Right.

She was 17 at the time. I feel proud of myself to have dated a younger woman, but I know I have to stop thinking about her.
Last edited by doubtingthomas on Wed May 04, 2022 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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