Paradise Split from LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct

[Res Ipsa]

I understand your claim. What’s missing is the evidence.

This all began when you had what felt was pretty strong reaction to an innocuous sentence about grooming. I believe you stated that you weren’t a groomer when nobody had suggested that you were. Overall, it sounds to me like you’ve got some baggage from that experience to work through. That’s no sin — we all have some. Just my opinion, but I don’t think that you’ll find a resolution to whatever it is you’re trying to work through in scientific papers. However you do it, I hope you work it out.

[Imwashingmypirate]

It means the extent to which the individual has developed traits we expect in an adult as opposed to those of a child or adolescent.

I understand. To be very clear, I was talking about 19 year olds in low-income neighborhoods. I was not saying that adolescents have the brain of a 25 year old.

Your earlier statements about the young person you dated were describing her maturity, in terms of behavior. Unless you were carrying around a portable MRI and periodically scanning her brain. You literally have no idea where her brain was in terms of development while you were dating her. And you have no idea what her level of "maturity" as a person will be at the end of her brain development.

My guess is that she is close to having a fully developed brain. Her father committed suicide (allegedly) and she did experience some horrible things in Mexico. But as you said, I don't have MRI scans.

I first read your post as saying you dated someone younger than 16, too. But I didn't think that made sense, so I just ignored it. People misunderstand each other's posts here all the time. That's not defamation -- that's a mistake that is easily cleared up by explanation.

Right.

She was 17 at the time. I feel proud of myself to have dated a younger woman, but I know I have to stop thinking about her.

I don't understand your responses here doubting Thomas.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic.

An MRI wouldn't be able to express someone's maturity level. There are lots of reasons for immaturity. DT, what age were you when dating said 17 y/o? That's what matters. Were you physically dating her or online dating? Was it a sexual relationship? How do these young women feel looking back on their time with you? Do they regret it? How do they perceive the relationship you had?

You don't have to answer my questions. These are purely rhetorical but the biggest factor in the dynamic of the relationships you had would be how the women feel about them now that they may be older and wiser?

That is something you need to look at.

Does it make you feel proud because in some way they are like trophies and it boosts your self esteem to know that you were able to start up these relationships.

Again a rhetorical question and I am trying to avoid judgement because I don't know what age you were and I don't know anything about this. As a person who sort of dated an older man, I can say that I feel a sadness. That I fell into that without processing but I wasn't coerced. I wasn't abused (although some people might think of it that way). I was on autopilot and he was there. He listened to me. I was less lonely. But I thank the heavens there was no physical relationship. I know I would have regret if the relationship was a "real" relationship. And mainly because I don't feel that I was in control. I was needy and very lonely. Anyone could have given me attention and Id have gone with it.

[Imwashingmypirate]

She was 17 at the time. I do feel proud of my [26-year-old] self to have dated a younger woman…

Hmm. I actually imagined worse than this. Would you still feel ok dating a 17 year old now? I think I was 18 "sort of dating" a 39 year old when my mum was 4 years older. My family don't know but I have reason to believe they do know but I think my mum thinks it was a lecturer I was "talking" to. But I darent go there. They appear happy to not acknowledge it. Perhaps knowing it wasn't something I was proud of. Because there was a lecturer, talking to me just before and he confused me mightily. And she saw me talking to the lecturer with the same name and said oh he's a Dr. And then another time I was talking to the other guy and she said he's a bit manly. And then a friend said (a few years ago)in front of my mum that he saw Dr ... The other day and my mum knew the friend meant a uni lecturer and she said I'm just going to go sit down. So it felt like she made that connection but I don't know if she did. She hasn't asked. The lecturer was innapropriate with me but in person nothing was said. He lied to me a lot and liked to talk about what we could do together (he was in his 40s) but then was professional in person and acted like these conversations never happened. And I just went along with it. I was 17. Never had any form of relationship. Very unstable childhood. Was sexually abused (if you like) and with hindsight probably groomed slightly too. My husband knows all about all of this. But he is the only person I've slept with and had a real relationship with. And honestly, I wasn't in the right place to be going into that relationship either. I was going to therapy and I was engaged to him before my therapist even found out I was with someone. It was only because he left a voicemail saying he was my fiance and I was running late that the therapist was like wth??? I couldn't even say the word "boyfriend". It felt like a dirty word. I was going to therapy for years by this point, shared every innermost part of who I was (except my now husband). I also fell in love with my therapist. Even whilst being in a relationship. I realised years later that this was transference and probably a good deal of attachment issues and maybe even continuing that father figure theme. So I was screwed up. And this is how I am able to say that young people can be naïve and can be not ready. But that is not to say that all young people fit into this. But I would say that most young people with significant childhood trauma are especially vulnerable.

Edit. Correcting autocorrect.

[doubtingthomas]

Would you still feel ok dating a 17 year old now?

Does age always define the maturity of a person, and wouldn't you expect a single mom to be mature? There's evidence that the brain matures more rapidly when the young person goes through hard times.

I can assure you that I was like her best friend and didn't harm her in any sense. Do you think it was wrong on my part to date her?

[Imwashingmypirate]

Would you still feel ok dating a 17 year old now?

Does age always define the maturity of a person, and wouldn't you expect a single mom to be mature? There's evidence that the brain matures more rapidly when the young person goes through hard times.

I can assure you that I was like her best friend and didn't harm her in any sense. Do you think it was wrong on my part to date her?

I can't answer that. Only she can. If it was a relative and she was happy. I wouldn't judge.

I wouldn't expect a single mum to be mature automatically. I don't think my brain matured in hard times. Yes, in some areas I had more insight. But I was dissociated and immature. I was mentally younger than my peers. At 15, I played with barbies. My therapist said I dressed like a child. I was confused because my legs looked too big for me and they felt alien. In my mind I thought I should have had Childs legs.

So every person is a different person and must be viewed differently.

I think if her family were ok with you, which I read there was a suggestion of that then they obviously weren't concerned. And so in that situation given the evidence you have supplied, I wouldn't like to say she wasn't mature enough. And given that the relationship has ended, it would suggest to me that she didn't feel trapped. But again I don't have the information required. I know when I was 17, I would have been too young.

[doubtingthomas]

If it was a relative and she was happy. I wouldn't judge.
...

I think if her family were ok with you, which I read there was a suggestion of that then they obviously weren't concerned.

Thank you!

Yes absolutely. Her mother gave me permission to date her. I initially had no idea she was that young because she lied about her age when we started talking. Fortunately, 17 is legal in most US states. A 17 year old is old enough to join the US military.

I know when I was 17, I would have been too young.

Right, we are all different. Some are more mature and others are very immature and naïve.

At 15, I played with barbies. My therapist said I dressed like a child.

Nothing wrong with that. I suspect that these days it's not uncommon for 15 year olds play with toys.

[doubtingthomas]

See the above.

[Imwashingmypirate]

Apologies... I should have added ... That would be my opinion for a 27 year old. If a 50 year old was interested I'd be a bit more thorough with my investigation but ultimately, in The UK, the legal age is 16 to date and have sex. 18 to get married without consent. My mum was married at 16 and had a first child by 17. She married a 19 year old. But I'm not sure if British people might be different socially to American teens. So ultimately I'd go by how they appear together and be supportive. I'd be feeling the energy.

I also believe that when you try to push people apart it brings them closer together.

I do hope you find someone who you can be happy with and not feeling judged. Maybe just date everybody and anybody, even older people, get you out the house even just for a meal, you don't need to date them again if you don't connect. Build your confidence.

[doubtingthomas]

If a 50 year old was interested I'd be a bit more thorough with my investigation

I agree. It's extremely unlikely for a young woman to be interested in a 50 year old. The 50 year olds have no business talking to young women.

in The UK, the legal age is 16 to date and have sex. 18 to get married without consent. My mum was married at 16 and had a first child by 17. She married a 19 year old.

Wow, but I am sure times have changed. It's now becoming very popular to get married after 30.

I do hope you find someone who you can be happy with and not feeling judged. Maybe just date everybody and anybody, even older people, get you out the house even just for a meal, you don't need to date them again if you don't connect. Build your confidence.

Thanks again! You sound like a very intelligent and likable person.