do I understand the definition of a woman?

[K Graham]

The Myth Of Biological Sex

Many who oppose transgender rights believe that gender is determined solely by biological sex. But, biological sex isn’t as straightforward as they likely think, and there is no one parameter that makes a person biologically male or female. In fact, many conditions make assigning a biological sex quite difficult.

Despite the complexities, biological sex is often discussed as if it were obvious how to assign male or female sex. In addition to today’s Supreme Court ruling, last Friday, Trump eliminated transgender individuals’ civil rights in health care and Roger Severino, the Director of the Office for Civil Rights at the Department of Health and Human Services said of the bill that “We're going back to the plain meaning of those terms [male and female], which is based on biological sex.” Earlier this month, Harry Potter author, J.K. Rowling, was labeled anti-trans for making a distinction between biological women and transgender women. And, in April, Idaho became the first state to require that athletes competing in girls’ and women’s sports be biologically female. None explained exactly how they would assign biological sex in ambiguous cases.

The biology of sex is real, but it’s extremely complicated, and there is sometimes no easy way to draw a line between the biologically male and female. According to the BBC documentary, Me, My Sex and I, “There are about a dozen different conditions that blur the line between male and female. They’re known as disorders of sexual development or DSDs…. Altogether, DSDs occur as frequently as twins or red hair.”

Chromosomes

Most think chromosomes hold the key to biological sex, but that’s not always the case. Typically, those with two X chromosomes are considered biologically female and those with one X and one Y chromosome are considered biologically male. However, a DSD known as Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS) leads some to have an X and Y chromosome, but physically appear to be girls. Without genetic testing, babies with AIS are often assigned female sex at birth and are raised as girls. They may not realize they are not biologically female until they hit puberty and don’t begin to menstruate.

Genitalia

The presence or lack of a penis is often thought of as another clear indicator of biological sex, but that’s not a decisive way to divide the sexes either. Some individuals are born with ambiguous genitalia and are not clearly male or female in genital appearance at birth. In fact, research indicates that about 2% of the population is born with these ambiguous traits. Those born with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH), for example, are chromosomally female but may have very masculinized genitalia. Despite the ambiguity, biological sex is often assigned to these individuals within a few days of birth.

Clinical psychogist, Tiger Devore, an outspoken advocate for individuals with DSDs who was born with ambiguous genitalia, describes the process that occurs at the birth of a child with ambiguous genitals, “People create radio silence and they wait for the doctors to come up with some kind of decision about this. The doctors are looking at their chromosomes, their gonads, how their tissues respond to various kinds of hormonal influences and seeing what they think will happen if they try to give this kid a male assignment or female assignment, and that can be a messy process.”

When genitalia is ambiguous, doctors try to determine biological sex by examining many indicators. In addition to chromosomes, doctors will examine if the baby has ovaries or testes, and whether or not they have a womb. Doctors also look at the hormones being produced and try to guess how the baby’s genitals will develop. To complicate the process, the results from each of these tests may not be clearly male or female but could fall somewhere in between. A baby may have a womb and may also have testicles inside their body. Rather than take a “wait and see” approach, doctors often still feel compelled to choose one sex for the baby.

In Devore’s case, in order to conform to society’s norms for how biological males appear, doctors recommended to his parents that he undergo surgery to appear more male. His first surgery was at three months of age. He’s had fifteen more surgeries since then, ten of which were conducted before he turned ten years old.

Testosterone

In elite athletics, testosterone is sometimes seen as the key to identifying who is permitted to participate as female. South-African runner Caster Semenya was assigned female at birth, raised as a girl and identifies as a woman. But Semenya has a DSD, and as a result, has XY chromosomes and very high testosterone levels. In 2019, new rules were instituted to keep women like Semenya from participating in certain events unless they take medication to lower their testosterone levels. Studies of testosterone levels in elite athletes show overlap between men and women, so it’s tough to use testosterone as criteria for who is biologically male and who is biologically female.

As for the Idaho law which prohibits transgender girls and women from competing in sports Representative Barbara Ehardt, the sponsor of the bill told the New York Times that DNA tests to determine chromosomes would be the first step. “If there are questions beyond that, there are hormone, urine and blood tests that are much more common.” When asked about intersex athletes, Ehardt said, “If there was a situation such as that, that person’s doctor would no doubt already be familiar and already be in a position to solve.” It seems biological sex would once again be left to the subjective decision of a doctor.

One of the reasons most of us are unaware of the ambiguity surrounding biological sex is that genitalia is something we don’t talk about openly. Clinical Psychologist, Aileen Schast, counseled parents who had given birth to children with DSDs and explained in a documentary how difficult it was for parents of a newborn whose sex was not clearly defined. “That early feeling of shame starts to develop. ‘This is something I can’t talk about. It has to do with genitalia, and we don’t talk about that. So, I can’t tell my sister and I can’t tell my friends at work,’” she described. Since few discuss these conditions, many don’t realize that they exist.

“What’s amazed me the most is that there is such a continuum from the male to the female, and it’s really hard to draw a line somewhere neatly in the middle,” Schast added. Biological sex, it turns out, is a lot like gender identity—not always male or female, but occasionally somewhere in between.

[canpakes]

One of the questions I found interesting in neuroscience had to do with if there is a universal, biological basis for a shared sense of aesthetics. That's not clear, and some things like music clearly demand early exposure in life to find certain sounds and types of music pleasing.

Before it gets lost in the pile, I’d like to add that what you’ve mentioned here would be an excellent thread discussion of its own.

[honorentheos]

Too many variables, give me a specific example.

It is a specific example.

In your opinion, were a member of a couple to be given an opportunity to accept a big promotion in their career but need to relocate to take it, expectations about how they should make the decision to relocate wouldn't be weighted differently depending on if the person had a vagina or a penis? Presuming that having one or the other was not otherwise necessary for any other reason, of course.

Simply put, does having a penis vs a vagina matter here?

[honorentheos]

One of the questions I found interesting in neuroscience had to do with if there is a universal, biological basis for a shared sense of aesthetics. That's not clear, and some things like music clearly demand early exposure in life to find certain sounds and types of music pleasing.

Before it gets lost in the pile, I’d like to add that what you’ve mentioned here would be an excellent thread discussion of its own.

I could snip that out and start it I suppose. Curious where it would go?

[Markk]

Too many variables, give me a specific example.

It is a specific example.

In your opinion, were a member of a couple to be given an opportunity to accept a big promotion in their career but need to relocate to take it, expectations about how they should make the decision to relocate wouldn't be weighted differently depending on if the person had a vagina or a penis? Presuming that having one or the other was not otherwise necessary for any other reason, of course.

Simply put, does having a penis vs a vagina matter here?

???I answered that…just tell me your end game and point?

[honorentheos]

It is a specific example.

In your opinion, were a member of a couple to be given an opportunity to accept a big promotion in their career but need to relocate to take it, expectations about how they should make the decision to relocate wouldn't be weighted differently depending on if the person had a vagina or a penis? Presuming that having one or the other was not otherwise necessary for any other reason, of course.

Simply put, does having a penis vs a vagina matter here?

???I answered that…just tell me your end game and point?

The question is if having a penis compared to a vagina influences the decision-making. You brought up culture and roles (rightly, in my opinion) but didn't answer the actual question about if having a penis vs a vagina mattered. The question is a yes-no question. I think you can answer it as yes or no. So?

[Markk]

The Myth Of Biological Sex

Many who oppose transgender rights believe that gender is determined solely by biological sex. But, biological sex isn’t as straightforward as they likely think, and there is no one parameter that makes a person biologically male or female. In fact, many conditions make assigning a biological sex quite difficult.

Despite the complexities, biological sex is often discussed as if it were obvious how to assign male or female sex. In addition to today’s Supreme Court ruling, last Friday, Trump eliminated transgender individuals’ civil rights in health care and Roger Severino, the Director of the Office for Civil Rights at the Department of Health and Human Services said of the bill that “We're going back to the plain meaning of those terms [male and female], which is based on biological sex.” Earlier this month, Harry Potter author, J.K. Rowling, was labeled anti-trans for making a distinction between biological women and transgender women. And, in April, Idaho became the first state to require that athletes competing in girls’ and women’s sports be biologically female. None explained exactly how they would assign biological sex in ambiguous cases.

The biology of sex is real, but it’s extremely complicated, and there is sometimes no easy way to draw a line between the biologically male and female. According to the BBC documentary, Me, My Sex and I, “There are about a dozen different conditions that blur the line between male and female. They’re known as disorders of sexual development or DSDs…. Altogether, DSDs occur as frequently as twins or red hair.”

Chromosomes

Most think chromosomes hold the key to biological sex, but that’s not always the case. Typically, those with two X chromosomes are considered biologically female and those with one X and one Y chromosome are considered biologically male. However, a DSD known as Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS) leads some to have an X and Y chromosome, but physically appear to be girls. Without genetic testing, babies with AIS are often assigned female sex at birth and are raised as girls. They may not realize they are not biologically female until they hit puberty and don’t begin to menstruate.

Genitalia

The presence or lack of a penis is often thought of as another clear indicator of biological sex, but that’s not a decisive way to divide the sexes either. Some individuals are born with ambiguous genitalia and are not clearly male or female in genital appearance at birth. In fact, research indicates that about 2% of the population is born with these ambiguous traits. Those born with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH), for example, are chromosomally female but may have very masculinized genitalia. Despite the ambiguity, biological sex is often assigned to these individuals within a few days of birth.

Clinical psychogist, Tiger Devore, an outspoken advocate for individuals with DSDs who was born with ambiguous genitalia, describes the process that occurs at the birth of a child with ambiguous genitals, “People create radio silence and they wait for the doctors to come up with some kind of decision about this. The doctors are looking at their chromosomes, their gonads, how their tissues respond to various kinds of hormonal influences and seeing what they think will happen if they try to give this kid a male assignment or female assignment, and that can be a messy process.”

When genitalia is ambiguous, doctors try to determine biological sex by examining many indicators. In addition to chromosomes, doctors will examine if the baby has ovaries or testes, and whether or not they have a womb. Doctors also look at the hormones being produced and try to guess how the baby’s genitals will develop. To complicate the process, the results from each of these tests may not be clearly male or female but could fall somewhere in between. A baby may have a womb and may also have testicles inside their body. Rather than take a “wait and see” approach, doctors often still feel compelled to choose one sex for the baby.

In Devore’s case, in order to conform to society’s norms for how biological males appear, doctors recommended to his parents that he undergo surgery to appear more male. His first surgery was at three months of age. He’s had fifteen more surgeries since then, ten of which were conducted before he turned ten years old.

Testosterone

In elite athletics, testosterone is sometimes seen as the key to identifying who is permitted to participate as female. South-African runner Caster Semenya was assigned female at birth, raised as a girl and identifies as a woman. But Semenya has a DSD, and as a result, has XY chromosomes and very high testosterone levels. In 2019, new rules were instituted to keep women like Semenya from participating in certain events unless they take medication to lower their testosterone levels. Studies of testosterone levels in elite athletes show overlap between men and women, so it’s tough to use testosterone as criteria for who is biologically male and who is biologically female.

As for the Idaho law which prohibits transgender girls and women from competing in sports Representative Barbara Ehardt, the sponsor of the bill told the New York Times that DNA tests to determine chromosomes would be the first step. “If there are questions beyond that, there are hormone, urine and blood tests that are much more common.” When asked about intersex athletes, Ehardt said, “If there was a situation such as that, that person’s doctor would no doubt already be familiar and already be in a position to solve.” It seems biological sex would once again be left to the subjective decision of a doctor.

One of the reasons most of us are unaware of the ambiguity surrounding biological sex is that genitalia is something we don’t talk about openly. Clinical Psychologist, Aileen Schast, counseled parents who had given birth to children with DSDs and explained in a documentary how difficult it was for parents of a newborn whose sex was not clearly defined. “That early feeling of shame starts to develop. ‘This is something I can’t talk about. It has to do with genitalia, and we don’t talk about that. So, I can’t tell my sister and I can’t tell my friends at work,’” she described. Since few discuss these conditions, many don’t realize that they exist.

“What’s amazed me the most is that there is such a continuum from the male to the female, and it’s really hard to draw a line somewhere neatly in the middle,” Schast added. Biological sex, it turns out, is a lot like gender identity—not always male or female, but occasionally somewhere in between.

Kevin,

Please offer a conclusion on this and break down this article. For one she is saying that men with a rare disease where there genitalia does not advance can identify as either a male of a female because of undeveloped genitila. What she fails to state is that they are biological males….period. This disorder affect about 1 in 100k from an article I read, or just over 3000 males in the us.

Can you define what a woman is?

[K Graham]

The Myth Of Biological Sex

Kevin,

Please offer a conclusion on this and break down this article. For one she is saying that men with a rare disease where there genitalia does not advance can identify as either a male of a female because of undeveloped genitila. What she fails to state is that they are biological males….period. This disorder affect about 1 in 100k from an article I read, or just over 3000 males in the us.

Can you define what a woman is?

Why is this so difficult for you to grasp? Is it because Republicans are so confined to binary thinking that they block out any sense of nuance? Why is it hard to understand that the "biological" definition of man or woman is far more complex than just looking at genitalia? "Woman" or "man" is not a scientific or biological term to begin with, it is a designation humans have given to each other based on their own limited understanding. Science has come a long way on this issue and we're learning that there is much, much more to what it means to being either a man or woman. You seem completely disinterested in learning, and more interested in engaging in a perspective that leads to ignorance and bigotry, like Ajax recently mocking a black woman on the the Supreme Court because she didn't jump through the idiotic hoops of a Republican interrogator.

[K Graham]

Sex isn’t binary, and we should stop acting like it is

Liza Brusman
Molecular Biology
University of Colorado

The way the US thinks about sex is wrong. Many people believe that biological sex is binary: either you’re male or you’re female. But as with many binaries, things are more complicated than they seem.

Sex and gender, for example, are not the same. Sex is our biology — what chromosomes, hormones, genes, sex organs, and secondary sex characteristics we have — while gender is how we think of our identity in the context of how norms function in our culture. Understanding gender not as male or female, but rather as a spectrum, is a recent development for many Americans. It hasn’t been a simple transition: Every day, people make countless decisions based on their sex and gender, some of which can provoke debate, like choosing which bathroom to use, or filling out legal documents, or competing in sports.

Yet just like gender isn’t binary, our biology isn’t binary either: it, too, exists on a spectrum. In fact, many people’s bodies possess a combination of physical characteristics typically thought of as “male” or “female.” As one example, some people with androgen insensitivity have XY chromosomes, internal testes, and external female genitalia. Traits, including hormone levels, can also vary widely both within and across sexes. But people who fall outside of what’s considered normal face discrimination. Take South African runner Caster Semenya, who was recently the subject of a ruling that ordered her to lower her naturally high testosterone levels to compete with other female runners — even though studies have shown that because testosterone levels are so highly variable, there’s overlap between the natural testosterone levels of men and women.

Students are often inaccurately taught that all babies inherit either XX or XY sex chromosomes, and that having XX chromosomes makes you female, while XY makes you male. In reality, people can have XXY, XYY, X, XXX, or other combinations of chromosomes — all of which can result in a variety of sex characteristics. It’s also true that some people with XX chromosomes develop typically male reproductive systems, and some people with XY chromosomes develop typically female reproductive systems.

When embryos first develop, they all start out with the same rudimentary reproductive tract — regardless of chromosomes or genes. Later on, during typical embryonic development, embryos with the SRY gene — usually found on the Y chromosome — then develop testes, seminal vesicles, an epididymis, vas deferens, and a penis. If the embryo has a functional WNT4 gene — found on chromosome 1 — and no SRY gene, its reproductive system instead develops into ovaries, a uterus, fallopian tubes, and a vagina.

But sometimes people end up with intersex traits, often referred to in medical settings as differences of sex development (DSD). People may choose to identify their sex as male, female, and/or intersex/with DSD, although many intersex advocates argue against the use of DSD as it implies that they need to be “fixed.” There are many ways people can be intersex. For example, XX embryos with an SRY gene will develop as typical males, while XY embryos lacking the SRY gene will develop as typical females. There are also other genetic variants in a number of genes that can alter hormone levels, resulting in a reproductive system that is neither strictly male nor female. These changes can cause someone’s reproductive system to not “match” their chromosomes.

In the US, when a child is born with ambiguous genitalia, doctors commonly recommend reconstructive surgery to align the child’s anatomy more closely to typical male or female anatomy. It’s been estimated that babies with intersex traits account for up to 2 percent of live births, with this kind of surgery being performed in about 0.1 to 0.2 percent of live births — even though evidence suggests this can cause physical and psychological harm.

A complicating problem is that doctors can lack experience treating bodies that are neither male nor female, making it harder for them to understand their patients’ needs. This is true not only for intersex people, but for transgender and non-binary patients as well, some of whom may be taking hormones so that their bodies more closely align with their gender identities. Some of these patients may not be seeking affirming medical interventions, and just want their pronouns respected. Both physical and psychological harm can be caused by the medical enforcement of a sex binary, making it harder for people to seek the medical help that they need in the future.

Harmful approaches to sexual traits carry over to gender because our society often thinks of sex and gender as interchangeable. Laws and social attitudes can make it difficult for intersex, transgender, and non-binary people to receive adequate healthcare services, participate in sports, or be protected from discrimination.

The idea that gender or sex are binary harms everyone by stigmatizing traits that lie outside of what society considers normal. Changing attitudes and social structures to recognize sex as a spectrum is a daunting task, but it is possible. To make real change, we need both public education about the biological sex spectrum as well as policy changes. We should ban surgeries on intersex people without their consent and reinstate the Obama-era interpretation of Title IX to enact laws that specifically protect those who are intersex, transgender, or non-binary.

The doctor’s office is often the first place people learn about being intersex, usually when it pertains to themselves or a child. If — instead of recommending that intersex children be raised as either male or female — doctors educated patients and parents about the sex spectrum, it would help people feel accepted in their bodies and change attitudes about what’s normal. But it’s also important to add similar education to traditional sex ed in the classroom. Simply teaching about the spectrum of sex can begin to break down stigma.

Currently, discrimination based on sex and gender is widespread. For example, the language used in legal documents like licenses and passports often conflates sex and gender, and in many areas of life, the law offers protection only for binary sexes/genders. Even when certain states, like California, have acted progressively and enabled people to choose non-binary as a gender marker on their driver’s licenses, the federal government has been slow to catch up. This leaves people vulnerable in many ways, including the workplace, housing market, and healthcare.

There are a few positive examples the US could follow: some countries, including Australia, allow people to self-identify as a third gender or sex. Germany also allows a third sex designation, but only if the person is born with intersex traits. Though there are a few countries that allow for identification as a third sex, they don’t necessarily offer legal protection of this third sex. (Many, for instance, don’t have laws that prevent medically unnecessary surgeries from being performed on intersex people without their consent.) Just creating a new box to fit people in doesn’t necessarily solve the problem.

To truly put an end to sex and gender-based discrimination, we need legislation that considers sex as a spectrum with unlimited options. In some cases, this could be as simple as expanding the language that has been used in laws like Title IX to be explicitly inclusive of all sexes and genders. We also need laws that specifically protect people with non-binary sexes and genders from discrimination in areas like healthcare settings, the workplace, and housing.

The science is clear — sex is a spectrum. Yet the solution to the misunderstanding of sex doesn’t end with scientists. We also need better public education and structural changes to recognize and protect people and their biology.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

> doesn't read article

> please tell me what article means

-_-

- Doc