do I understand the definition of a woman?

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
User avatar
Gadianton
God
Posts: 4029
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:56 pm
Location: Elsewhere

Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Gadianton »

Markk wrote:Well I certainly do now what a women is and I know what a woman is not. It may be disguised or hidden, but a definition of a woman is a female, and the definition of a man is a male
Hey man, points for trying.

A predictable response, however. What's the definition of a girl? If it's "a female" you've got yourself a problem.

You're well down the path of circular reasoning. If you'd like some help, google "Socrates and definition of a bachelor". Socrates went through this with the right-wingers of his day also.

Circularity is the first of a few problems you're going to have. I'm not sure you'll get past this first problem. Ultimately, any answer can be disputed, but to get a definition that's even worth considering, you've got some work ahead.
Markk
1st Quorum of 70
Posts: 730
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:49 am

Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Markk »

Gadianton wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 10:45 pm
Markk wrote:Well I certainly do now what a women is and I know what a woman is not. It may be disguised or hidden, but a definition of a woman is a female, and the definition of a man is a male
Hey man, points for trying.

A predictable response, however. What's the definition of a girl? If it's "a female" you've got yourself a problem.

You're well down the path of circular reasoning. If you'd like some help, google "Socrates and definition of a bachelor". Socrates went through this with the right-wingers of his day also.

Circularity is the first of a few problems you're going to have. I'm not sure you'll get past this first problem. Ultimately, any answer can be disputed, but to get a definition that's even worth considering, you've got some work ahead.
No, a Girl is just another name or term for a female in which context dictates the meaning, in that most all words demand a context. My wife is a girl, a female, a sister, mother, aunt, grandmother, and above all a beautiful powerful strong intelligent woman. What she is not, is a boy, a male, a man, a brother, father, uncle, grandfather. She is not a chemically or surgically modified male that is pretending to be a biological female, but a naturally born biological Human Being.

A Girl most often is probably used in the context of a young female human being…and a woman is a older woman, but also as a young blossoming woman ….and older females as a woman. In a specific sense Men and Women are names for the male and female persons of human beings. Young Girls will blossom into women hood, and young boys into manhood.

If you do not understand this, I don’t know if anything I can say will help you understand it, only because you were told there is no definition for a woman, so you tow that line. Or maybe this is all new to you…who knows. I have to ask…are you married? And if so to what?

What does the Woman’s Liberation Movement stand for and who does it represent…? What was Helen Reddy singing about?…are you saying you did not, and do not understand the rights fought for and struggles for the “thing with no definition” to gain equality? And now that they have gotten there, or at least much closer, you say you don’t know or understand what they really are?

You are taking women's equality down to the cellar by demanding there is no definition for a Woman and basically no concrete place for a Woman in society.

What is a un-altered, biologically born female human being called, that can hold a concrete definition?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rptW7zOPX2E
Markk
1st Quorum of 70
Posts: 730
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:49 am

Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Markk »

Chap wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 12:18 pm
Markk wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 4:28 am
... a definition of a woman is a female, and the definition of a man is a male.
Yours maybe. But the real world in which people live is more complicated. If you prefer to ignore that, fine. Doesn't bother me.
Okay so a woman is not a female? What is your definition?

I really hope Jersey Girl is following this thread…I wonder what she thinks about a bunch of men here saying there is really no such thing of a woman? Or basically a woman is just a abstract thing with no real defined role in society.
Markk
1st Quorum of 70
Posts: 730
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:49 am

Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Markk »

Themis wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 6:34 pm
Markk wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 4:28 am
Well I certainly do now what a women is and I know what a woman is not. It may be disguised or hidden, but a definition of a woman is a female, and the definition of a man is a male. You can play with words and alter nature all you want, but all the typing on keyboards can’t change nature. It cracks me upon how folks digest what ever they are told to digest, it is a what I will call the “ emperors new clothes” syndrome (ENCS)
There's a good none definition of a man and women. lol
You should try to to tell this to a male dog, they certainly know what female is unless they have been altered, and they can’t even read!
Not sure this is the best example, considering that male dogs are known to hump just about anything living or not.
I tell you what put a 100 healthy males that haven’t been tampered with on an island with 100 men biological altered men that call themselves females on an island, and see if the population grows? Or do the same with 100 healthy females that have not been altered on an island with 100 women with peckers that have been sewed on, and see how many children they produce?
This is at least a little to how you define a male and female. It's a popular one for those apposed to people who get sex changes, but you at least admit if we can alter a man into a women enough for them to get pregnant they qualify as being a women.
Again this is the ENCS…so much for evolution…you are throwing Darwin under the bus.
Evolution never cared. Evolution is just alterations to individuals or species that is successful in surviving and passing on those alterations.

LOL and male human beings don’t (hump anything that moves)

If a woman is undefinable…what is your definition of a woman?
User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 6920
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:51 am
Location: In my head

Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Jersey Girl »

Markk wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 12:18 am
Chap wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 12:18 pm


Yours maybe. But the real world in which people live is more complicated. If you prefer to ignore that, fine. Doesn't bother me.
Okay so a woman is not a female? What is your definition?

I really hope Jersey Girl is following this thread…I wonder what she thinks about a bunch of men here saying there is really no such thing of a woman? Or basically a woman is just a abstract thing with no real defined role in society.
She is! ;-) I'm not ready to jump back in yet really. Had a challenging day over here. Anyway...

I've tried at least twice to explain the difference between the terms gender and sex. I appreciate that we got further in this discussion than any other we've participated in. That's progress!

But...I still don't think you quite understand the difference and that's okay. I didn't either until it became part of my education.

This really is a more technical discussion than you give it credit for and requires technical terminology to be understood. I know I sound like a snob here. I'm not. I'm just a Jersey Girl who is familiar with the topic.
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 6920
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:51 am
Location: In my head

Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Jersey Girl »

I'm going to pop this post back up again for the second time. I'm usually a good teacher but who knows let's see if I can take this one step forward Markk. Hate this.


THIS IS WHAT WE MAKE YOU BE AS A SOCIETY


Gender


You need to understand what gender is and that it is a social construct.
Boys and girls are raised differently by their families and society based on those social constructs.
The social constructs are actually stereotypes.
That sets the perception of what constitutes a boy and girl in place.

Example: Boys toys vs. girls toys. Boy colors vs. girl colors.

THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE BORN AS

Sex

You need to understand what your sex is.
It's not the same as your perceived gender.
Sex refers to your physical characteristics, what reproductive organs you have.
And...to complicate matters more...whether or not you have reproductive organs of BOTH sexes.


Did that help anything at all? I'll do another one just on gender. Just simple snapshot of the term gender.
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
Markk
1st Quorum of 70
Posts: 730
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:49 am

Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Markk »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 12:58 am
Markk wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 12:18 am


Okay so a woman is not a female? What is your definition?

I really hope Jersey Girl is following this thread…I wonder what she thinks about a bunch of men here saying there is really no such thing of a woman? Or basically a woman is just a abstract thing with no real defined role in society.
She is! ;-) I'm not ready to jump back in yet really. Had a challenging day over here. Anyway...

I've tried at least twice to explain the difference between the terms gender and sex. I appreciate that we got further in this discussion than any other we've participated in. That's progress!

But...I still don't think you quite understand the difference and that's okay. I didn't either until it became part of my education.

This really is a more technical discussion than you give it credit for and requires technical terminology to be understood. I know I sound like a snob here. I'm not. I'm just a Jersey Girl who is familiar with the topic.
According to some, you are not a girl…and maybe not even a woman in that woman is subjective with no definition. Go figure.
User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 6920
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:51 am
Location: In my head

Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Jersey Girl »

Totally winging this. Bear with me.


THIS IS WHAT WE MAKE YOU BE AS A SOCIETY


Gender

You need to understand what gender is and that it is a social construct.
Boys and girls are raised differently by their families and society based on those social constructs.
The social constructs are actually stereotypes.
That sets the perception of what constitutes a boy and girl in place.

Example: Boys toys vs. girls toys. Boy colors vs. girl colors.
Gender is what society molds you to be.
Gender is based on stereotyping a person as say a boy or a girl.
When a child is approx. 3 years old they will tell you that they are a boy or a girl.
They can do this because they were taught they were a boy or a girl with specific and distinct characteristics.


Boys (generalized stereotypes that inform our behavior and self identity, self concept)

Parents treat and physically handle young boys differently than girls.
Parents are rougher with boys.
Parents are less inclined to discuss emotional states with their boys.
Boys are tougher.
Boys are strong.
Boys don't cry.
Boys don't wear pink colors. Girls wear pink.
Boys don't wear ruffles. Girls wear ruffles.

Girls (generalized stereotypes that inform our behavior and self identity, self concept)

Parents are more tender and physically gentle in handling their girls.
Parents are more inclined to see their girls as more emotional and therefore tend to the emotions of girls.
Girls are weaker and more fragile.
Girls cry when emotional.


Boys move. Girls talk. There is actually some support for that.

The Wonder of Boys by Michael Gurian from the Gurian Institute
He has all sorts of books regarding gender and development. He'll email you to talk if you want.

Lesser on my list...

Boys Changing the Classroom, Dan Hodgins

I say lesser only because I think he failed to adequately support his theories scientifically BUT his theories are born out in my 3 decades or so.

Markk...there is a thing called the feminization of the classroom. Typically our classrooms are set up by females FOR females because we function based on stereotypes and our own experience, needs, and preferences. People like Gurian and Hodgins (now deceased) work to increase awareness. I had to work to undo my own techniques, approaches, to the environment and interactions to make my classroom more hospitable to boys and more likely to meet their biological needs. That's a project I documented the last 2 years of my teaching career. Very interesting results! It was freaking awesome!!

[/babbling] which is why I'm trying to avoid participating here. :lol:
Last edited by Jersey Girl on Thu May 05, 2022 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 6920
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:51 am
Location: In my head

Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Jersey Girl »

Markk wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 1:10 am


According to some, you are not a girl…and maybe not even a woman in that woman is subjective with no definition. Go figure.
I'm a girl because I was raised to be a girl except for one thing...I was also provided with typical boy toys and experiences as a child so only God knows what I am.

So far I figure I'm female. ;)

I gotta stop now. Getting stressed out. It's not you, it's me.
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
User avatar
Doctor CamNC4Me
God
Posts: 9081
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:04 am

Re: do I understand the definition of a woman?

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Today I smoked cigars while my wife smoked weed. We took a small hike in the country. I read a few chapters in a book. We pulled weeds from our garden, where we recently installed a rather large drip system because Utah is short on water these days. I watched some YouTube videos, one of which is on right now (shout out to consigliere). I sent emojis to my two grown daughters who have live-in fiancés. We ate some homemade food. I drank a soda. Took two craps. And I read some updates with regard to Russia’s War of Aggression.

You know what had zero impact on the quality of my life?

LGTBQA+ gender and sex issues.

Zero.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
Post Reply