do I understand the definition of a woman?

[Chap]

There are plenty of women with short hair, that wear pants, and have masculine manners…but are still very much a women…so what is the exact “milestone or bench mark” that makes a biological man a women?

Whether a human body is male or female is in nearly 100% of cases a relatively simple scientific question to settle, as I set out in my post.

Whether the person whose body it is should be treated as a man or as a woman is not a question that can be settled in the same objective way. It's basically a matter of social convention, for which we have to take responsibility as society and as individuals.

As I suggested in my post, I think that in nearly all cases the best way of proceeding is to find out how the person in question wants to be treated, and treat them that way. Cases where a person with a biologically male body uses that freedom of choice to harm others are rare, and just as we do not treat all people with male bodies who identify as men as violent and coercive rapists (although a very few are), there is no reason to view all people with male bodies who identify as women as if they posed a significant sexual risk to women.

The overwhelming risk of sexual violence or other sexual unpleasantness to women will always be found to come from people with biological male bodies who identify as men.

[Markk]

There are plenty of women with short hair, that wear pants, and have masculine manners…but are still very much a women…so what is the exact “milestone or bench mark” that makes a biological man a women?

Whether a human body is male or female is in nearly 100% of cases a relatively simple scientific question to settle, as I set out in my post.

Whether the person whose body it is should be treated as a man or as a woman is not a question that can be settled in the same objective way. It's basically a matter of social convention, for which we have to take responsibility as society and as individuals.

As I suggested in my post, I think that in nearly all cases the best way of proceeding is to find out how the person in question wants to be treated, and treat them that way. Cases where a person with a biologically male body uses that freedom of choice to harm others are rare, and just as we do not treat all people with male bodies who identify as men as violent and coercive rapists (although a very few are), there is no reason to view all people with male bodies who identify as women as if they posed a significant sexual risk to women.

The overwhelming risk of sexual violence or other sexual unpleasantness to women will always be found to come from people with biological male bodies who identify as men.

So then IYO defining what a person is by simply what they want to be identified as. Biology has nothing to do with it.

Where is the benchmark or milestone, which for lack of a better term, that “certifies” a person is a male or female for social reasons…like public assistances, sports, restroom and or clubs, or other such reasons. In other words, can a man or a woman wake up in the morning and for what ever reason decide to be the opposite sex…without any other reason and be accepted as such and have all the Liberty’s of that decision.

What I kind funny…as I was writing that last paragraph…it might be hypocritical if I were to believe in your scenario….how should I have written that question IYO if it was your paragraph…i.e using words like “man and woman,” or “opposite sex?” In your scenario scientifically we can use the words male and female absolutely, but at the same time peoples sexuality or “being (I guess)” is just a subjective reality based on feelings. How might I have written my question? I am really curious.

[Chap]

So then IYO defining what a person is by simply what they want to be identified as. Biology has nothing to do with it.

I have tried to make it quite plain in earlier posts that in my view the question of whether a person's body is male or female is to be decided on purely scientific grounds. In 99% of cases, that can be settled easily at birth.

Where is the benchmark or milestone, which for lack of a better term, that “certifies” a person is a male or female for social reasons…like public assistances, sports, restroom and or clubs, or other such reasons. In other words, can a man or a woman wake up in the morning and for what ever reason decide to be the opposite sex…without any other reason and be accepted as such and have all the Liberty’s of that decision.

I have suggested that we should avoid confusion by reserving the word 'sex' for the identity of a body as male or female (to be decided on scientific grounds). Whether we call someone a man or a woman is in my view best seen as a question of social convention. I have argued that insisting that there is and should always be a simple correspondence between sex and gender is unnecessarily cruel to people who feel that their gender does not match their sex, and who in nearly every case ask nothing of the rest of us but a little respect and tolerance.

Whether or not people should be able to switch gender at will from day to day is second-level problem: in most societies that permit gender change, there are legal provisions in force that ensure that the decision is made seriously and with long-term intent. Speaking for myself, I don't think that is unreasonable. Nor do I find it unreasonable to exclude biological males who wish to change gender and be recognised as women from spaces to which biologically female women go to take refuge from male violence and assault. [For simplicity, I leave aside the case of people who have undergone major surgical body modification.]

I think it is worth repeating that the overwhelming risks to women of sexual and other violence does and will always come from biologically male people who identify as men.

[Chap]

So then IYO defining what a person is by simply what they want to be identified as. Biology has nothing to do with it.

I have tried to make it quite plain in earlier posts that in my view the question of whether a person's body is male or female is to be decided on purely scientific grounds. In 99% of cases, that can be settled easily at birth.

Where is the benchmark or milestone, which for lack of a better term, that “certifies” a person is a male or female for social reasons…like public assistances, sports, restroom and or clubs, or other such reasons. In other words, can a man or a woman wake up in the morning and for what ever reason decide to be the opposite sex…without any other reason and be accepted as such and have all the Liberty’s of that decision.

I have suggested that we should avoid confusion by reserving the word 'sex' for the identity of a body as male or female (to be decided on scientific grounds). Whether we call someone a man or a woman is in my view best seen as a question of social convention. I have argued that insisting that there is and should always be a simple correspondence between sex and gender is unnecessarily cruel to people who feel that their gender does not match their sex, and who in nearly every case ask nothing of the rest of us but a little respect and tolerance.

Whether or not people should be able to switch gender at will from day to day is what we may call a second-level problem: in most societies that permit gender change, there are legal provisions in force that ensure that the decision is made seriously and with long-term intent. Speaking for myself, I don't think that is unreasonable. Nor do I find it unreasonable to exclude biological males who wish to change gender and be recognised as women from spaces to which biologically female women go to take refuge from male violence and assault. [For simplicity, I leave aside the case of people who have undergone major surgical body modification.]

I think it is worth repeating that the overwhelming risks to women of sexual and other violence does and will always come from biologically male people who identify as men.

[Markk]

So then IYO defining what a person is by simply what they want to be identified as. Biology has nothing to do with it.

I have tried to make it quite plain in earlier posts that in my view the question of whether a person's body is male or female is to be decided on purely scientific grounds. In 99% of cases, that can be settled easily at birth.

Where is the benchmark or milestone, which for lack of a better term, that “certifies” a person is a male or female for social reasons…like public assistances, sports, restroom and or clubs, or other such reasons. In other words, can a man or a woman wake up in the morning and for what ever reason decide to be the opposite sex…without any other reason and be accepted as such and have all the Liberty’s of that decision.

I have suggested that we should avoid confusion by reserving the word 'sex' for the identity of a body as male or female (to be decided on scientific grounds). Whether we call someone a man or a woman is in my view best seen as a question of social convention. I have argued that insisting that there is and should always be a simple correspondence between sex and gender is unnecessarily cruel to people who feel that their gender does not match their sex, and who in nearly every case ask nothing of the rest of us but a little respect and tolerance.

Whether or not people should be able to switch gender at will from day to day is second-level problem: in most societies that permit gender change, there are legal provisions in force that ensure that the decision is made seriously and with long-term intent. Speaking for myself, I don't think that is unreasonable. Nor do I find it unreasonable to exclude biological males who wish to change gender and be recognised as women from spaces to which biologically female women go to take refuge from male violence and assault. [For simplicity, I leave aside the case of people who have undergone major surgical body modification.]

I think it is worth repeating that the overwhelming risks to women of sexual and other violence does and will always come from biologically male people who identify as men.

I am not sure why the last paragraph is important to this subject? The overwhelming risks to women of sexual and violence has, always been throughout history been by men. Again why is this important in trying to sort through all this?

What do you say to a woman, who lives her life with all the things a girl, teenager, young woman, mother, grand mother, going through all the trials and emotions, good and bad, of a woman, and then have a 50 year old man wake up in the morning and identify as a woman, and who not only wants, but demnds a full seat at the table of womanhood?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

You think a dude just wakes up one morning and flips his switch?

-_-

- Doc

[Jersey Girl]

I am not sure why the last paragraph is important to this subject? The overwhelming risks to women of sexual and violence has, always been throughout history been by men. Again why is this important in trying to sort through all this?

What do you say to a woman, who lives her life with all the things a girl, teenager, young woman, mother, grand mother, going through all the trials and emotions, good and bad, of a woman, and then have a 50 year old man wake up in the morning and identify as a woman, and who not only wants, but demnds a full seat at the table of womanhood?

You say..."You're going to need a support system. Please tell me how I can serve you."

Now. With all the legal things you are probably thinking about, of course an attorney needs to be part of that support system.

p.s. It's not a matter of waking up in the morning and re-identifying. It's a matter of stepping forward with what one already knows about themselves and has likely known (or at least suspected) since childhood.

[Jersey Girl]

I haven't read this whole thread. Really just started reading it backwards. I'm still kind of ill and yet I do know what day it is.

Anyway, I did want to step forward and say that with regard to the competitive sports issues, I have a problem with the whole thing and I'm not sure that a trans team is the answer. I do think it should be a consideration. And yes, I do realize that could be seen as discrimination but I do think there could be precedent for it?

If my comment doesn't fit the topic, feel free to ignore or have it hurled out of here.

[Themis]

I have suggested that we should avoid confusion by reserving the word 'sex' for the identity of a body as male or female (to be decided on scientific grounds). Whether we call someone a man or a woman is in my view best seen as a question of social convention.

I see the lines between the two being more and more blurred as technology allows for more and greater changes from one sex to another. We are moving into the arena of growing organs, transplants and editing DNA. This has real implications on this issue.

[Markk]

I am not sure why the last paragraph is important to this subject? The overwhelming risks to women of sexual and violence has, always been throughout history been by men. Again why is this important in trying to sort through all this?

What do you say to a woman, who lives her life with all the things a girl, teenager, young woman, mother, grand mother, going through all the trials and emotions, good and bad, of a woman, and then have a 50 year old man wake up in the morning and identify as a woman, and who not only wants, but demnds a full seat at the table of womanhood?

You say..."You're going to need a support system. Please tell me how I can serve you."

Now. With all the legal things you are probably thinking about, of course an attorney needs to be part of that support system.

p.s. It's not a matter of waking up in the morning and re-identifying. It's a matter of stepping forward with what one already knows about themselves and has likely known (or at least suspected) since childhood.

So you believe that they should be a woman, with all the “privileges” and “things” that come with being a woman, except perhaps sports?…because of inner feelings?

What would this support system do in regards to making them a woman? If they already have the feelings of a woman, in a mans biological body? In other wards I could equally support them as a man..right? Or if it is a woman deciding to become a man, am I more qualified as a man, than yourself to support them?