do I understand the definition of a woman?

[Themis]

in my opinion… Many or most might say “do what you want to do, or call yourself what you want to call yourself….” But I doubt that few older women would think a transgendered person that identifies as a woman can possibly ever understand what a biological women is and what they go through in life.” This is a narrative pushed and carried my a very small group, and politicized.

Some women can't get pregnant. They will never understand the same way as other women who do get pregnant. We don't deny them a seat at the table. Even in some cases some women never menstruate. We don't deny them a seat at the table. Even people who can get pregnant may not experience it in exactly the same ways.

[Jersey Girl]

in my opinion… Many or most might say “do what you want to do, or call yourself what you want to call yourself….” But I doubt that few older women would think a transgendered person that identifies as a woman can possibly ever understand what a biological women is and what they go through in life.” This is a narrative pushed and carried my a very small group, and politicized.

Some women can't get pregnant. They will never understand the same way as other women who do get pregnant. We don't deny them a seat at the table. Even in some cases some women never menstruate. We don't deny them a seat at the table. Even people who can get pregnant may not experience it in exactly the same ways.

Can I just point out the obvious here. There's not a male on this thread who can understand what a bio woman goes through. And not one bio woman on this board who knows and understands what every other bio woman has gone through.

We're individuals with our own individual psychological make up and individual experiences you know.

All guys on the thread, avoid generalizing. I'm not saying that you are generalizing but if you're going to cover this topic, avoid it at all costs. It'll get so screwed up it that the conversation/topic will become irretrievable.

[Markk]

So you believe that they should be a woman, with all the “privileges” and “things” that come with being a woman, except perhaps sports?…because of inner feelings?

What would this support system do in regards to making them a woman? If they already have the feelings of a woman, in a mans biological body? In other wards I could equally support them as a man..right? Or if it is a woman deciding to become a man, am I more qualified as a man, than yourself to support them?

Markk...I have been ill and am not exactly in a position to make my brain gears work right now. Maybe I can take one statement at a time and try to concentrate on each thing that way. Here's one reply:


What would this support system do in regards to making them a woman?

The support system wouldn't do anything to making them a woman.

The support system would accompany them during the journey and beyond. So on a support system, I would see (and don't hold me to this I'm a bit foggy right now).

FRIENDS and FAMILY who are willing to go the distance for the person in question.
Doctor
Therapist
Psychiatrist
Guided support group specifically for trans persons
Endocrinologist or whomever specializes in transitions, I confess, I don't know at the moment. Specialty doctor.
Plastic surgeons for a variety of procedures
One or more attorneys
Clergy if applicable

Markk...this might not make sense to you at the moment and given the complexity of the topic but...the answer to almost every single question you could possibly ever face is usually--->love.

It’s makes sense, but anyone could do that…it does not really answer my question of how a, for lack of a better term, a “journeyman” mother, wife, grandmother …who has dealt with all the hormonal emotions of puberty, motherhood, menopause, and everything in between of being a women could support them? If it is just as you wrote the again anyone could do that.


I think it is a fair question. I know many such women that might say something like “yeah right” and think no more about it and continue doing what they do as women. Not vindictively, or in bad way, but in a way I might not be able to explain in words, but in a way a husband might understand.

For me, at my age, the most awesome thing I see in my wife (over 40 years of marriage and we started dating when she was 18) and others like her, is how they got to where they are as a woman, going through all the different emotions, trials, and seasons, a woman goes through.

I think there a place here for this in the discussion?

Hope you feel better, I have also been dealing with a cold.

[Jersey Girl]

Markk...I have been ill and am not exactly in a position to make my brain gears work right now. Maybe I can take one statement at a time and try to concentrate on each thing that way. Here's one reply:


What would this support system do in regards to making them a woman?

The support system wouldn't do anything to making them a woman.

The support system would accompany them during the journey and beyond. So on a support system, I would see (and don't hold me to this I'm a bit foggy right now).

FRIENDS and FAMILY who are willing to go the distance for the person in question.
Doctor
Therapist
Psychiatrist
Guided support group specifically for trans persons
Endocrinologist or whomever specializes in transitions, I confess, I don't know at the moment. Specialty doctor.
Plastic surgeons for a variety of procedures
One or more attorneys
Clergy if applicable

Markk...this might not make sense to you at the moment and given the complexity of the topic but...the answer to almost every single question you could possibly ever face is usually--->love.

It’s makes sense, but anyone could do that…it does not really answer my question of how a, for lack of a better term, a “journeyman” mother, wife, grandmother …who has dealt with all the hormonal emotions of puberty, motherhood, menopause, and everything in between of being a women could support them? If it is just as you wrote the again anyone could do that.


I think it is a fair question. I know many such women that might say something like “yeah right” and think no more about it and continue doing what they do as women. Not vindictively, or in bad way, but in a way I might not be able to explain in words, but in a way a husband might understand.

For me, at my age, the most awesome thing I see in my wife (over 40 years of marriage and we started dating when she was 18) and others like her, is how they got to where they are as a woman, going through all the different emotions, trials, and seasons, a woman goes through.

I think there a place here for this in the discussion?

Hope you feel better, I have also been dealing with a cold.

OH MY GOD I AM ON STEROIDS AND I SWEAR I COULD PUT YOU THROUGH A WALL ON YOUR FIRST SENTENCE!!!

Calming down...

Stop right here. Explain this one thing before we go one more inch forward or I'm bailing entirely.

It’s makes sense, but anyone could do that…it does not really answer my question of how a, for lack of a better term, a “journeyman” mother, wife, grandmother …who has dealt with all the hormonal emotions of puberty, motherhood, menopause, and everything in between of being a women could support them? If it is just as you wrote the again anyone could do that.

What does journeyman mean to you in the above? How are you using the term?

Recall that I said the purpose of the support system for a potential trans person is to accompany the person on their journey.

So now you are talking about a journeyman...for what reason???

Clarify this.

I'll step away for a bit.

[Jersey Girl]

Hold on. I think I can reply to this before you clarify. I can't deal with too much complexity right now. I just plugged in the phone to the charger and wondered why my laptop wasn't charging. Do you see my problem?

Markk...this might not make sense to you at the moment and given the complexity of the topic but...the answer to almost every single question you could possibly ever face is usually--->love.

It’s makes sense, but anyone could do that…it does not really answer my question of how a, for lack of a better term, a “journeyman” mother, wife, grandmother …who has dealt with all the hormonal emotions of puberty, motherhood, menopause, and everything in between of being a women could support them? If it is just as you wrote the again anyone could do that.

YES. Anyone could do that. Anyone equipped and willing to lend support could do that. Anyone willing to learn how to lend support could do that.

with regard to to the "journeyman" (we're talking about women you ding dong ) you are actually talking about a MENTOR.

This isn't a situation of let's say a woman my age acting as MENTOR trying to help the potential trans person make up for what they didn't have.

Mark when I say support system, look at that list of people I made for you. We're talking about lending the type of support that you might give to a person who is going to through a physical, emotional, and social transition.

Let's say you got hit by one of your trucks, lost a leg, and ended up with a TBI.

The support system would look about the same don't you think? You might have to trade out specialty doctors but it'd be about the same. ANYONE could be part of your support system. Male, female, you could even join a support group for amputees and folks struggling with TBI and your family could join a support group for the families and caretakers of folks with these issues.

[Markk]

in my opinion… Many or most might say “do what you want to do, or call yourself what you want to call yourself….” But I doubt that few older women would think a transgendered person that identifies as a woman can possibly ever understand what a biological women is and what they go through in life.” This is a narrative pushed and carried my a very small group, and politicized.

Some women can't get pregnant. They will never understand the same way as other women who do get pregnant. We don't deny them a seat at the table. Even in some cases some women never menstruate. We don't deny them a seat at the table. Even people who can get pregnant may not experience it in exactly the same ways.

But they are biologically women. The transgender is a woman because of feelings and technology…according to most of what I have read here. A woman that cannot get pregnant will have another journey as a woman than one that can …but they are still biologically women, and will share the same instincts in that they are wired the same. They might even struggle because they cannot get pregnant because they are wired to give birth. A women might be told she could never have children…then 5 years later, bingo they are pregnant. They are no less a biological woman when she thought she could not have children, than she is now as a mother.

in my opinion It is apples and oranges, and in my opinion trying to force a orange to be a apple because you want it to be. It does not mean apples and oranges can’t be in the same bowl, but they are still different fruits.

[Markk]

Hold on. I think I can reply to this before you clarify. I can't deal with too much complexity right now. I just plugged in the phone to the charger and wondered why my laptop wasn't charging. Do you see my problem?

Markk...this might not make sense to you at the moment and given the complexity of the topic but...the answer to almost every single question you could possibly ever face is usually--->love.

It’s makes sense, but anyone could do that…it does not really answer my question of how a, for lack of a better term, a “journeyman” mother, wife, grandmother …who has dealt with all the hormonal emotions of puberty, motherhood, menopause, and everything in between of being a women could support them? If it is just as you wrote the again anyone could do that.

YES. Anyone could do that. Anyone equipped and willing to lend support could do that. Anyone willing to learn how to lend support could do that.

with regard to to the "journeyman" (we're talking about women you ding dong ) you are actually talking about a MENTOR.

This isn't a situation of let's say a woman my age acting as MENTOR trying to help the potential trans person make up for what they didn't have.

Mark when I say support system, look at that list of people I made for you. We're talking about lending the type of support that you might give to a person who is going to through a physical, emotional, and social transition.

Let's say you got hit by one of your trucks, lost a leg, and ended up with a TBI.

The support system would look about the same don't you think? You might have to trade out specialty doctors but it'd be about the same. ANYONE could be part of your support system. Male, female, you could even join a support group for amputees and folks struggling with TBI and your family could join a support group for the families and caretakers of folks with these issues.

OKay..but it was not what I was referring too…

[Markk]

It’s makes sense, but anyone could do that…it does not really answer my question of how a, for lack of a better term, a “journeyman” mother, wife, grandmother …who has dealt with all the hormonal emotions of puberty, motherhood, menopause, and everything in between of being a women could support them? If it is just as you wrote the again anyone could do that.


I think it is a fair question. I know many such women that might say something like “yeah right” and think no more about it and continue doing what they do as women. Not vindictively, or in bad way, but in a way I might not be able to explain in words, but in a way a husband might understand.

For me, at my age, the most awesome thing I see in my wife (over 40 years of marriage and we started dating when she was 18) and others like her, is how they got to where they are as a woman, going through all the different emotions, trials, and seasons, a woman goes through.

I think there a place here for this in the discussion?

Hope you feel better, I have also been dealing with a cold.

OH MY GOD I AM ON STEROIDS AND I SWEAR I COULD PUT YOU THROUGH A WALL ON YOUR FIRST SENTENCE!!!

Calming down...

Stop right here. Explain this one thing before we go one more inch forward or I'm bailing entirely.

It’s makes sense, but anyone could do that…it does not really answer my question of how a, for lack of a better term, a “journeyman” mother, wife, grandmother …who has dealt with all the hormonal emotions of puberty, motherhood, menopause, and everything in between of being a women could support them? If it is just as you wrote the again anyone could do that.

What does journeyman mean to you in the above? How are you using the term?

Recall that I said the purpose of the support system for a potential trans person is to accompany the person on their journey.

So now you are talking about a journeyman...for what reason???

Clarify this.

I'll step away for a bit.

A journeyman is a experienced person who has basically stood the test of time and lived trough many trials and seasons of life…at least in the context I wrote it.

I believe I put it in quotes in that I use it in a loose general sense…I wouldn’t get too excited about that. Use another word that works for a older woman that has lived a full life.

Now don’t get upset at this, please. I am trying to get a point across, and have a discussion…but you have told me several times in the past, that I cannot comment or basically have an opinion about abortion, on the sole basis that I am man and not a woman. How does that fit into all of this IYO?

[Themis]

in my opinion It is apples and oranges, and in my opinion trying to force a orange to be a apple because you want it to be. It does not mean apples and oranges can’t be in the same bowl, but they are still different fruits.

You still don't grasp the difference between sex and gender, and even sex, which is defined in scientific ways, is blurred and more so over time. You will probably see a day when a person who was born male and transitioned to female is getting pregnant. Should they be classified as a women or a man? How about a women who transitions to male and is able to get the necessary parts to impregnate a female. Do you think the LDS church will recognize them as male and give them the priesthood? Would you?

[Jersey Girl]

The transgender is a woman because of feelings and technology…according to most of what I have read here.

NO.

Feelings are emotions. Emotions are things like sadness, happiness, anger, etc.

We're talking about thoughts and perceptions. Psychology. Self concept. Thinking Not feeling.

I have no idea how technology got into the discussion but that's not applicable either.