Themis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:56 pm
Markk wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:29 pm
Please define what you mean by overlap?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... mplistic1/
Sexual attraction is a completely different issue…XY men can be attracted to other XY men, and XX women, to other XX women…and they are still biologically men and women. Their attractions, do not change their DNA, which you seen to be implying here?
They are certainly related. Do you really think gender identity is not going to play a role in sexual attraction? Do you think biology, genetics and environment) play a role in sexual attraction, and if yes do you think that it would also play a role in gender identity?
Comparing circumcision with changing the biological sex of a child, with a lifetime of treatments is hardly the same thing, and in my opinion an excuse to not address this issue.
Feel free to change it to changing biological sex on infants than.
If you believe a 8 year old (the average age that kids stop believeing in Santa is 8.4 years old)
Sounds like you are making an argument that they are starting to question, which is an important quality in making decisions. Anyways we have a large group of adults who believe other just as silly things. It is also the age many groups like LDS baptize their kids(age of accountability), meaning 8 has some significance to their ability to make reasoned choices.
Also there are policies (laws?) that are in affect that allows these kids to be counseled on this, by teachers, without parental knowledge. Do you agree with that?
I cannot comment on any specific law unless you provide what laws you are talking about. Keep in mind that we keep counseling confidence even from parents whether in their religion or a counselor at school. It's very important not to break confidence because it will create an environment where children will not talk to anyone. It's bad enough that they get a lot of poor information from the school yard.
Hi Themis,
I have read this article before, and I read it again. Thanks.
The article/link discusses in context DSD’s. Included in her “spectrum” apart from the XX/XY model are mutations and DSD’s, or plainly put abnormalities of the XX/XY model. In a previous post you stated you do not assert that abnormalities were within the normative spectrum, and yet, this article includes abnormal DSD’s, including full AIS in the XX/XY model.
What this thread has shown me, and I am extremely glad I entered into it in that it opened my eyes to DSD’s.
in my opinion, there are two main issues here. Folks with varying clear genetic disorders, apart from the XX/XY model, and of folks with no clear genetic abnormality, but of a mental or biochemistry condition that confuses what their biological gender is. Is that a fair statement?
While I very loosely knew of “DSD’s” ( I was not familiar with this term), but was completely unaware of the spectrum of these abnormalities. And I believe that folks that have followed this thread have learned a lot, apart from our political talking points.
Themis wrote…
They are certainly related. Do you really think gender identity is not going to play a role in sexual attraction? Do you think biology, genetics and environment) play a role in sexual attraction, and if yes do you think that it would also play a role in gender identity?
Again a different topic….gay men are just that…men, and gay women, women…with XX/XY genes respectively. Transgender people are not gay men, nor gay women, they are transgender and this is just one of a growing list of gender identifications. Some transgenders are transgender/non gender out of necessity because of disorders, and others because of choice, even though they are within the XX/XY model.
We are not discussing sexual attraction, but sexual identity. Apples and oranges.
Themis wrote…Feel free to change it to changing biological sex on infants than.
Using circumision as an example to changing ones sex, with majorly surgery, life time hormone treatments and medical problems e.g. bone lose… is just a diversion in dealing with this difficult topic. If you need to use such a petty double standard argument, then your original argument can’t stand up…just like trying to group opposite sex attraction, to sexual identification.
Themis wrote…Sounds like you are making an argument that they are starting to question, which is an important quality in making decisions. Anyways we have a large group of adults who believe other just as silly things. It is also the age many groups like LDS baptize their kids(age of accountability), meaning 8 has some significance to their ability to make reasoned choices.
I will, for the record, take it that you believe a 8 year old is then capable of making such a decision. As a former 8 year old, and a parent, and grand parent… with all my heart disagree. In fact in my opinion, I believe it is some sort of abuse.
The two issues come into affect here…with DSD’s the folks have to make very difficult decisions. Those with just feelings of gender confusion, often regret making such irreversible decisions, and to think a 8 year old, or any age child can make such a decision is just in my opinion wrong.
Themis wrote…I cannot comment on any specific law unless you provide what laws you are talking about. Keep in mind that we keep counseling confidence even from parents whether in their religion or a counselor at school. It's very important not to break confidence because it will create an environment where children will not talk to anyone. It's bad enough that they get a lot of poor information from the school yard.
That is insanity and just opens the door to big brother indoctrination. To trust total strangers with your child’s future without full disclosure.
What is the limits a school can counsel kids on without parental knowledge?
Taking life time hormone treatments, surgically removing sex organs, best face tattoos? Best weapons for home defense? Best way to take heroin (snort, shoot,, smoke)? Who decides what is okay to teach children behind the parents backs?