Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade

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Gunnar
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade

Post by Gunnar »

K Graham wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 1:01 am
'm not pro-murdering babies.

I'm pro-Becky who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs.

I'm pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later.

I'm pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child.

I'm pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn't mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal.

I'm pro-Melissa who's working two jobs just to make ends meet and has to choose between bringing another child into poverty or feeding the children she already has because her spouse walked out on her.

I'm pro-Brittany who realizes that she is in no way financially, emotionally, or physically able to raise a child.

I'm pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses.

I'm pro-Christina who doesn't want to be a mother, but birth control methods sometimes fail.

I'm pro-Jessica who is FINALLY getting the strength to get away from her physically abusive spouse only to find out that she is carrying the monster's child.

I'm pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat.

I'm pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager.

I'm pro-Courtney who just found out she's already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks dying from internal bleeding.
You can argue and say that I'm pro-choice all you want, but the truth is:

I'm pro-life.

Their lives.

Women's lives.

You don't get to pick and choose which scenarios should be accepted.

Women's rights are meant to protect ALL women, regardless of their situation!
I think you made a very important and valid point here. If one is not both pro-choice and pro-life, one is really not pro either one, because of the well-thought-out arguments you presented above. Thus there is really no inherent contradiction in being both pro-choice and pro-life, when one really fully thinks it through rationally.

On the other hand, one can rationally argue that in some respects and situations that the real contradiction lies in claiming to be both anti-choice and pro-life.
Last edited by Gunnar on Mon May 09, 2022 6:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade

Post by Gunnar »

Justice Alito should now be the subject of both a perjury investigation AND an impeachment inquiry
In a draft Supreme Court opinion authored by Justice Samuel Alito, he announced that he HAS ALWAYS BELIEVED that Roe v. Wade should be overruled. Among other things, he wrote that Roe is "an abuse of judicial authority" and "was egregiously wrong from the start." The problem is, these statements contradict what he said in his confirmation hearings when he desperately was trying to be confirmed to the Supreme Court.

Accordingly, Alito should absolutely be investigated by the Department of Justice for possible perjury (and other crimes, like conspiracy to deprive Americans of their constitutional and civil rights) and he should also be the subject of an impeachment inquiry by Congress. Because #JusticeMatters.
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade

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Some Schmo
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade

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For Republicans, it's more moral to kill a baby with a gun than with surgical instruments.
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade

Post by Morley »

Some Schmo wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 1:38 pm
For Republicans, it's more moral to kill a baby with a gun than with surgical instruments.
I'm mostly pro-choice. That said--all things being equal, I think I'd rather be killed with a gun than with surgical instruments.
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade

Post by Chap »

Morley wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 7:40 pm
Some Schmo wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 1:38 pm
For Republicans, it's more moral to kill a baby with a gun than with surgical instruments.
I'm mostly pro-choice. That said--all things being equal, I think I'd rather be killed with a gun than with surgical instruments.
But in the context we are talking, the question is at what stage is there in any meaningful sense a 'you' that is being killed?

If you believe that the instant a sperm gets into an egg, a non-physical 'soul' is inextricably associated with the resultant gamete, then anything that ends the progress of that gamete towards a full-term fetus about to be born is the death of a human being.

That would imply, of course, that a funeral service should be conducted over the sanitary towels discarded during any particularly heavy period by a woman who is having unprotected sex, since that might well be the mortal remains of a human being whose existence terminated, like many others, before successful implantation in the wall of the uterus.

But even the people who believe passionately in the arrival of souls on fertilisation don't do that. Don't they really believe that a human being may have died? Or do they just have some vestigial sense of the ridiculous? It is particularly inconsistent if they fail to hold those funerals, but still believe that people should go to jail for murder if they use in utero devices such as the coil that prevent implantation from taking place.

But hey - who cares so long as enough women have their lives made a misery from having sex?
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Morley
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade

Post by Morley »

Chap wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 8:31 pm
Morley wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 7:40 pm


I'm mostly pro-choice. That said--all things being equal, I think I'd rather be killed with a gun than with surgical instruments.
But in the context we are talking, the question is at what stage is there in any meaningful sense a 'you' that is being killed?

If you believe that the instant a sperm gets into an egg, a non-physical 'soul' is inextricably associated with the resultant gamete, then anything that ends the progress of that gamete towards a full-term fetus about to be born is the death of a human being.

That would imply, of course, that a funeral service should be conducted over the sanitary towels discarded during any particularly heavy period by a woman who is having unprotected sex, since that might well be the mortal remains of a human being whose existence terminated, like many others, before successful implantation in the wall of the uterus.

But even the people who believe passionately in the arrival of souls on fertilisation don't do that. Don't they really believe that a human being may have died? Or do they just have some vestigial sense of the ridiculous? It is particularly inconsistent if they fail to hold those funerals, but still believe that people should go to jail for murder if they use in utero devices such as the coil that prevent implantation from taking place.

But hey - who cares so long as enough women have their lives made a misery from having sex?
It was an attempt at humor.

In my imagination, 'killed with a gun' is blindfolded before a firing squad during the Spanish Civil War. The colonel offers me a cigarette. The general's daughter weeps because I'm the only love she'll ever know. She pins a red rose to my coat.

But when I think of being killed with surgical instruments, I think of being strapped to an operating table with Josef Mengele and Peter Lorre toothily sharpening their instruments. While sipping from yellowed straws stuck in cans of diet coke, they take turns telling me that it's going to be a long night.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade

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I wonder if the GQP understands that medical providers are allowed to not do anything they disagree with doing, and aren’t held legally liable unless their choice not to act causes severe harm or death. In other words, they’re totally free to practice as they wish based on their religious preferences so long as they provide their patients with opportunities to go elsewhere.

I can see there being some ethical dilemma if an obstetrician or surgeon doesn’t believe in abortion in any circumstances and practices in a rural setting, where a pregnant woman comes in the ER with a serious pregnancy-related complication, and they have to choose between abortion and letting the woman die. But even then, it’s hard to imagine that happening. Very few OBs would opt not to induce an abortion if the pregnancy is non-viable (and killing the mom in the process makes most early-stage pregnancies automatically non-viable). If that’s the situation where both the patient and physician agree that they don’t want the abortion regardless of outcome, they’ll likely lifeflight her somewhere after she’s stabilized; they won’t keep her around to die. I can’t imagine an OB taking that route, though.

In fact, I think I’ve read some accounts of Catholic hospitals denying care based on their religious beliefs, and no one is going to jail over their religiously-based medical decisions to not provide services. Whatever lies the GQP is telling their base about “doctors” being forced to perform abortions is just more garbage to make abortion itself a punitive offense. Bananas.

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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade

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What about a women's right to go to non-evangelical countries like Canada and Mexico if she can afford it?

What about access to dangerous back-alley procedures?
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Re: Supreme Court Overturning Roe v Wade

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Does anyone know whether the Supreme Court has a review of Obergefell v. Hodges and Brown v. Board of Education on their docket?
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