White Supremacist kills 10 in Buffalo Supermarket

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K Graham
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Re: White Supremacist kills 10 in Buffalo Supermarket

Post by K Graham »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 12:32 am
K Graham wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 12:01 am


There is nothing saying a personal attack is defined by whatever the whiner says he feels attacked about. Bringing up a fact about something a person has said or done shouldn't be defined as a personal attack just because someone hit the report button. If I were a member of the KKK back in my earlier years I wouldn't have any reason to complain about people bringing it up. Especially if I spent every waking moment posting racist remarks.
Unless language has undergone some fundamental change in the last day or two, it literally is a personal attack. It is personal, as the target is the person. It is absolutely attacking in nature — accusing someone of being Nazi is about as attacking as it gets. It also qualifies as blatant when it is used to dismiss, rather than address, what the person says. And when used as frequently as you use it, it rises to the level of harassment.

The rule does not include an exception for personal attacks that Kevin Graham thinks are deserved or justified.
Again, it isn't a personal attack to bring up valid facts and pertinent data that pertain to the issue at hand. You're the mod with all the power so you can make it a personal attack if you want, but I have a hard time thinking all the Nazis who were put on trial after the war were being "personally attacked" by the court simply because it was pointed out that they were, in fact, Nazis.

I'm not expecting "exceptions" for me, I'm just assuming some sense of consistency. As I said before, I posted here for many years while mods like EA brought up Ajax's racist history whenever he would post something that might make someone wonder if he was being racist. Well, yes. He was being racist. And here's the proof.

Ajax's mere presence here and his disgusting comments about minorities are more of a personal attack than me simply bringing up the fact that he posted on a Nazi forum for many years. But you don't see it that way, obviously. I think of him very much like I see this drunk passenger who was kicked out of the car by a Lyft driver for making racist remarks. In a sane world this is to be applauded.

https://nypost.com/2022/05/16/lyft-driv ... t-remarks/
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal" - Ajax18
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: White Supremacist kills 10 in Buffalo Supermarket

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Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 12:58 am
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 11:16 pm


QED.

RI,

What do you think a white warrior with 18 next to his name, along with a picture of a slave-owning Confederate General signals to the world?

- Doc
LOL. Greco Roman culture is the foundation of western civilization. When I see the name “Ajax,” I don’t think “white warrior.” I think Greek Mythic hero. I think of Greeks as Greeks. I have no idea what the color of their skin was. Was white as a race even a construct then? I never thought twice about the number 18 until someone pointed it out.

I read the Vassar website. I didn’t find any mention of Ajax s as an appropriated name, even though there’s a part of the website devoted to that specific topic. I still have not seen any recognized linkage between the name Ajax and ethnic cleaning.

So, I can’t speak for the rest of the world, but until people started claiming the connections, the screen names Ajax18 didn’t communicate anything to me at all.

The use of Forrest’s portrait as an avatar, given his brutality during the war, I find offensive. And I think the offense is intended by a defender of the Lost Cause. To me, it has always communicated a big middle finger anyone whose view of race isn’t stuck in the 1800s.

So what? In terms of moderating, the fact that I find something offensive is irrelevant. I don’t think his choice of avatar or screen name somehow make the rules apply differently to him.
White supremacists believe the Greeks were originally white, as in Aryan - fair-skinned with blonde, light brown, and red hair. Blue, green, and hazel eyes and the such.

Image

They literally believe the ancient Greeks were White. So. Yes. A great White warrior.

They also believe the same regarding the Roman gentry:

Image

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: White Supremacist kills 10 in Buffalo Supermarket

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Pharos is a website where classical scholars, students, and the public more broadly, can learn about appropriations of Greco-Roman antiquity by hate groups.
-_-

Don’t be pedantic, RI.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
huckelberry
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Re: White Supremacist kills 10 in Buffalo Supermarket

Post by huckelberry »

I am pretty sure Ajax photo is Thomas (Stonewall)Jackson. Dead before the war ended so not the person involved in starting the KKK.

Ajax, I have read the Iliad a few times and found myself fond of it. In my copy Ajax is called Aias, difference in translation. He is a strong character, perhaps the one I liked the best.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: White Supremacist kills 10 in Buffalo Supermarket

Post by Res Ipsa »

K Graham wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 12:58 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 12:32 am


Unless language has undergone some fundamental change in the last day or two, it literally is a personal attack. It is personal, as the target is the person. It is absolutely attacking in nature — accusing someone of being Nazi is about as attacking as it gets. It also qualifies as blatant when it is used to dismiss, rather than address, what the person says. And when used as frequently as you use it, it rises to the level of harassment.

The rule does not include an exception for personal attacks that Kevin Graham thinks are deserved or justified.
Again, it isn't a personal attack to bring up valid facts and pertinent data that pertain to the issue at hand. You're the mod with all the power so you can make it a personal attack if you want, but I have a hard time thinking all the Nazis who were put on trial after the war were being "personally attacked" by the court simply because it was pointed out that they were, in fact, Nazis.

I'm not expecting "exceptions" for me, I'm just assuming some sense of consistency. As I said before, I posted here for many years while mods like EA brought up Ajax's racist history whenever he would post something that might make someone wonder if he was being racist. Well, yes. He was being racist. And here's the proof.

Ajax's mere presence here and his disgusting comments about minorities are more of a personal attack than me simply bringing up the fact that he posted on a Nazi forum for many years. But you don't see it that way, obviously. I think of him very much like I see this drunk passenger who was kicked out of the car by a Lyft driver for making racist remarks. In a sane world this is to be applauded.

https://nypost.com/2022/05/16/lyft-driv ... t-remarks/
Man, your analogies are as over the top as Ajax’s. This isn’t Neuremberg, War criminals were prosecuted because they committed war crimes, not because they were Nazis, and Ajax isn’t war criminal. They only reason you keep bringing up posts made over a decade ago on another site is to attack who Ajax is as a person. For you to pretend it is anything other than a personal attack is disingenuous.

One of the two necessary components of “personal attack” is that it must be personal. Ajax’s presence here is not “personal.” Comments that he makes that are not about or directed at you are not “personal.” Being offended at posts he made 10 years ago or a general racist comment he makes does not magically transform posts not about or directed at Kevin Graham into personal attacks on Kevin Graham.

There was some back and forth on this issue between EA and I. To my knowledge, Shades never weighed in. EA and I agreed on the vast majority of Decisions. But his argument that true statements can never be personal attacks is not supported by the rule of the the plain meaning of the words personal and attack. This is an issue the mod team has discussed, and we’re not going to perpetuate an incorrect interpretation of the rules.

All you need to do is confine personal attacks to Prison and Telestial. When you’re in the other Kingdoms, attack the stance of posts, not the person.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: White Supremacist kills 10 in Buffalo Supermarket

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

huckelberry wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 1:28 am
I am pretty sure Ajax photo is Thomas (Stonewall)Jackson. Dead before the war ended so not the person involved in starting the KKK.

Ajax, I have read the Iliad a few times and found myself fond of it. In my copy Ajax is called Aias, difference in translation. He is a strong character, perhaps the one I liked the best.
Even though he threw a tantrum and committed suicide?

Hrm.

Perhaps I know why Xanax likes him so much.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: White Supremacist kills 10 in Buffalo Supermarket

Post by Res Ipsa »

huckelberry wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 1:28 am
I am pretty sure Ajax photo is Thomas (Stonewall)Jackson. Dead before the war ended so not the person involved in starting the KKK.

Ajax, I have read the Iliad a few times and found myself fond of it. In my copy Ajax is called Aias, difference in translation. He is a strong character, perhaps the one I liked the best.
Thanks, Huck. You are right. I thought Ajax had always used Forrest, but either he changed at some point or I misremembered.

Stupid old man brain…
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Res Ipsa
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Re: White Supremacist kills 10 in Buffalo Supermarket

Post by Res Ipsa »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 1:19 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 12:58 am


LOL. Greco Roman culture is the foundation of western civilization. When I see the name “Ajax,” I don’t think “white warrior.” I think Greek Mythic hero. I think of Greeks as Greeks. I have no idea what the color of their skin was. Was white as a race even a construct then? I never thought twice about the number 18 until someone pointed it out.

I read the Vassar website. I didn’t find any mention of Ajax s as an appropriated name, even though there’s a part of the website devoted to that specific topic. I still have not seen any recognized linkage between the name Ajax and ethnic cleaning.

So, I can’t speak for the rest of the world, but until people started claiming the connections, the screen names Ajax18 didn’t communicate anything to me at all.

The use of Forrest’s portrait as an avatar, given his brutality during the war, I find offensive. And I think the offense is intended by a defender of the Lost Cause. To me, it has always communicated a big middle finger anyone whose view of race isn’t stuck in the 1800s.

So what? In terms of moderating, the fact that I find something offensive is irrelevant. I don’t think his choice of avatar or screen name somehow make the rules apply differently to him.
White supremacists believe the Greeks were originally white, as in Aryan - fair-skinned with blonde, light brown, and red hair. Blue, green, and hazel eyes and the such.

Image

They literally believe the ancient Greeks were White. So. Yes. A great White warrior.

They also believe the same regarding the Roman gentry:

Image

- Doc
I told you what it communicated to me. As I’m not a whites supremacist, the name Ajax doesn’t communicate “white” to me.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: White Supremacist kills 10 in Buffalo Supermarket

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 1:55 am
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 1:19 am


White supremacists believe the Greeks were originally white, as in Aryan - fair-skinned with blonde, light brown, and red hair. Blue, green, and hazel eyes and the such.

Image

They literally believe the ancient Greeks were White. So. Yes. A great White warrior.

They also believe the same regarding the Roman gentry:

Image

- Doc
I told you what it communicated to me. As I’m not a whites supremacist, the name Ajax doesn’t communicate “white” to me.
Fair enough. It communicates “piece of crap racist who is using an online handle to signal his white supremacist ideology to the board.”

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: White Supremacist kills 10 in Buffalo Supermarket

Post by Res Ipsa »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 1:25 am
Pharos is a website where classical scholars, students, and the public more broadly, can learn about appropriations of Greco-Roman antiquity by hate groups.
-_-

Don’t be pedantic, RI.

- Doc
The entries on the site address explicit examples of appropriation. The thing is, Greek and Roman culture permeate American history and culture. Heck, several years ago, I read the story of the Illiad set on Mars. There’s a building in Seattle with a scaled down facade of the front of Monticello. I probably refer to something Green or Roman dozens of times a day without thinking of it.

So, to conclude that Ajax choose the screen name and continues to use it to communicate “ethnic cleansing” or even white supremacy is a pretty hasty generalization.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
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