The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

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Binger
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by Binger »

"'Be careful what you wish for' for $100.00, please, Alex."

"This makes demand for guns go up and gun registration go down."

"What are federal red flag laws? Be careful what you wish for $200, please"

Nothing is going to get in McConnell, Romney and Schumer's way. They are going to get what they want. There is no question that they are going to get what they want. I do not think there is a sane person in the country that doubts that these clowns are going to get what they want and what they wish for. With the exception of a single pesky election in 2016, they have never really not got what they want.

Is gun control a reasonable ambition? Yes. Is the country too violent with too many shootings, absolutely. Can these senate clownguys do anything to make it better, yes they can. Are they doing anything to make it better, not even a little bit. Symbolically, as long as we are goofing off and clowning around about AR's while a Mini-14 can be bought off the shelf, gun owners are not taking this conversation seriously. As long as this is a conversation about fetishes and fantasies, while ignoring the fetishes and fantasies of controlling the people with other fetishes and fantasies, gun owners are not taking this conversation seriously. And by gun owners - I include the legal and sane with the illegal and insane.
honorentheos
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by honorentheos »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:23 pm
honorentheos wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:04 am
So we've been wasting billions of dollars a year on military spending when we could have relied on private citizens spending their own money on forming the main deterent force against an attack on our country.
That's what the Founding Fathers had in mind.
No it's not. The need to revisit the Articles of Confederation and replace them with the Constitution arose in no small part over paying the Continental Army.

Again, your fetishizing of firearms sounds like you've swallowed the marketing.
Was I wrong, or was I right? Think of the gun owners you know or know of. If a foreign country invades and manages to defeat the U.S. military, will they just sit idly by and accept the new normal, letting their firearms gather dust?

Be honest.
Be honest?

I don't think you are a realistic person who understands how militaries actually work and are relying on a personal experience in the Marine Reserves and video wargames combined with firearm fantasies straight out of Red Dawn.

I know enough firearm owners to not attempt to make one stereotype out of them. Among them I know the folks who are the most gung ho about firearms, red-white-and-blue aesthetics, and Second Amendment issues on the internet were a) not particularly stellar soldiers and b) have life issues that make it seem as if they have fabricated a fantasy and a firearm-based identity in place of genuine self-esteem.

Honest enough?
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Dr. Shades
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by Dr. Shades »

honorentheos wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:12 pm
I know enough firearm owners to not attempt to make one stereotype out of them. Among them I know the folks who are the most gung ho about firearms, red-white-and-blue aesthetics, and Second Amendment issues on the internet were a) not particularly stellar soldiers and b) have life issues that make it seem as if they have fabricated a fantasy and a firearm-based identity in place of genuine self-esteem.
So, you're saying those folks will not shoot at enemy soldiers if their homeland is invaded, and any potential invaders are thus undeterred?
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Marcus
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by Marcus »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:50 pm
honorentheos wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:12 pm
I know enough firearm owners to not attempt to make one stereotype out of them. Among them I know the folks who are the most gung ho about firearms, red-white-and-blue aesthetics, and Second Amendment issues on the internet were a) not particularly stellar soldiers and b) have life issues that make it seem as if they have fabricated a fantasy and a firearm-based identity in place of genuine self-esteem.
So, you're saying those folks will not shoot at enemy soldiers if their homeland is invaded, and any potential invaders are thus undeterred?
"shoot at" in no way implies the enemy soldiers will be "deterred." You are equating owning a gun with the ability to accurately shoot and access to massive amounts of ammunition. you also seem to be forgetting that modern warfare has moved beyond the enemy arriving on a horse and showing themselves within walking distance.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:00 am
Marcus wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:12 pm
it really does require an explanation, for the reasons PG specified above. how will it "stop invading forces," "en route" or not?
All gun-owning civilians behind the front lines will become snipers.
-_-

:lol:

Good stuff, Shades.
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honorentheos
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by honorentheos »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:50 pm
honorentheos wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:12 pm
I know enough firearm owners to not attempt to make one stereotype out of them. Among them I know the folks who are the most gung ho about firearms, red-white-and-blue aesthetics, and Second Amendment issues on the internet were a) not particularly stellar soldiers and b) have life issues that make it seem as if they have fabricated a fantasy and a firearm-based identity in place of genuine self-esteem.
So, you're saying those folks will not shoot at enemy soldiers if their homeland is invaded, and any potential invaders are thus undeterred?
I'm sure they'll shoot. But no, no professional military capable of defeating the US military and invading such that we are resorting to unconventional warfare to defend the nation will be deterred by you and your friends. It's a Red Dawn fantasy that sells AR-15s.
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by Binger »

honorentheos wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:58 pm
Dr. Shades wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:50 pm

So, you're saying those folks will not shoot at enemy soldiers if their homeland is invaded, and any potential invaders are thus undeterred?
I'm sure they'll shoot. But no, no professional military capable of defeating the US military and invading such that we are resorting to unconventional warfare to defend the nation will be deterred by you and your friends. It's a Red Dawn fantasy that sells AR-15s.
Wow.

I believe that you think this. Thanks for sharing.
honorentheos
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by honorentheos »

Binger wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:20 pm
honorentheos wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:58 pm

I'm sure they'll shoot. But no, no professional military capable of defeating the US military and invading such that we are resorting to unconventional warfare to defend the nation will be deterred by you and your friends. It's a Red Dawn fantasy that sells AR-15s.
Wow.

I believe that you think this. Thanks for sharing.
No prob. Hopefully you copy why it's true. The Red Dawn fantasy is just another version of the manipulation you go on about elsewhere, only since it's guns and not something benefitial for society you keep that conveniently in your blind spot.
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Kukulkan
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by Kukulkan »

Two things I think worth mentioning.

1. Vast majority of gun deaths in the country are from handguns. As others have mentioned, the strange obsession with banning "assault weapons" only does a disservice to having more common sense gun control implemented. To fence sitters, it comes across more as just political posturing rather than an attempt to provide a legitimate solution. I think if the main posturing was highlighting things like waiting periods, red flag laws, and more stringent background checks, you would see a more widespread support for it. When Dems keep giving gun nuts slogans and phrases like Beto's infamous, “Hell yes, we’re going to take your AR-15, your AK-47,” an appearance of dishonesty is perceived.

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2. Can we really blame gun owners for desiring gun ownership for protection country? The 2nd amendment does boldly state, "being necessary to the security of a free State." Gun ownership historically has been necessary to protect the state and country in times of need. With the recent pandemic, social unrest in the country, war in Ukraine, food and supply chain issues, deepening political divides, can we really blame people for seeking out protection from an impending imagined breakout of violence? Things are always normal until they aren't. Not saying there is an impending apocalypse, but I do think many people are picking up on a general negative trend the nation has been following.
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honorentheos
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by honorentheos »

Kukulkan wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:28 pm
Not saying there is an impending apocalypse, but I do think many people are picking up on a general negative trend the nation has been following.
Another related trend line here is how gun sales and mass shooting deaths spiked in the spring of 2020 and have stayed high just as folks have been "picking up" on a negative vibe. It seems access to firearms is making it worse not better.

Also, mass shootings clearly dropped then spiked with the 1994-2004 assault weapons ban. It's not a mystery that limiting access to paramilitary weapons has an effect. The 1934 ban on automatic weapons had a dramatic effect as well.

While I believe the solution space for addressing shooting deaths in the US largely lies in asserting responsible ownership and use over unobstructed rights to access, it is not the case that access is a non-factor in our national problem. Fetishizing firearms is, in my opinion, the biggest hurdle and likely the cultural change that explains why the historic trends are as they are. People who view them as tools that involved passing on generational knowledge and safety culture aren't the majority of the problem here.
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