The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

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Jeff
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by Jeff »

Gunnar wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:11 am
Retired Marine's gun control video goes viral

This Marine Corps firearms instructor's recommendations on ownership and purchase standards for firearms makes far more sense than anything proposed by Republican leaders and their NRA owners.
Retired Marine Corps weapons instructor Matthew Gordon went viral with his TikTok video on gun reform. Hear his opinion on what he thinks America should do with gun control. #CNN #News
It is only a 3 minute and 23 second video, and well worth watching. Even highly trained, responsible marines are held to much higher standards and stricter responsibilities for ownership and control of personally owned firearms than civilians are held to.
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honorentheos
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:40 pm
I’d put a sign in my yard pointing back at the neighbors stating their gun collection is worth $10,000 on the street. Heh.

- Doc
Not sure what I'd do in real life since I can't imagine an in real life neighbor doing this. But I'd imagine it would involve going over to chat with them about it, point out the liability issue they created for themselves and, if we were on bad terms which I guess we should assume in this scenario, thanking them for providing an insurance policy in case my house were to be the target of an armed home invasion. I mean, the guys perpetrating the crime may get away but thanks to his sign and my preventative legal actions combined with the rule of law I can count on his being sued into bankruptcy and possibly held criminally responsible depending on how invested I am in kicking his ass via the mechanisms of a civilized society. You know, the kind of society we created through laws and the division of labor so we don't have to fear violence all the time like some dopes think is the world we should be investing in.
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canpakes
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

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Jeff wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:15 pm
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Here’s more of that quote:
It is very difficult for the labouring people, who have been deceived and intimidated by the reactionary ruling classes for thousands of years, to awaken to the importance of having guns in their own hands. Now that Japanese imperialist oppression and the nation-wide resistance to it have pushed our labouring people into the arena of war, Communists should prove themselves the most politically conscious leaders in this war. Every Communist must grasp the truth, "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party. Yet, having guns, we can create Party organizations, as witness the powerful Party organizations which the Eighth Route Army has created in northern China. We can also create cadres, create schools, create culture, create mass movements. Everything in Yenan has been created by having guns. All things grow out of the barrel of a gun.
Jeff wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:15 pm
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It’s interesting how so many ‘conservatives’ love to repeat the words of communists, as defense of repeating their actions and ideology.
honorentheos
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by honorentheos »

canpakes wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:43 pm
Jeff wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:15 pm
Image

Here’s more of that quote:
It is very difficult for the labouring people, who have been deceived and intimidated by the reactionary ruling classes for thousands of years, to awaken to the importance of having guns in their own hands. Now that Japanese imperialist oppression and the nation-wide resistance to it have pushed our labouring people into the arena of war, Communists should prove themselves the most politically conscious leaders in this war. Every Communist must grasp the truth, "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party. Yet, having guns, we can create Party organizations, as witness the powerful Party organizations which the Eighth Route Army has created in northern China. We can also create cadres, create schools, create culture, create mass movements. Everything in Yenan has been created by having guns. All things grow out of the barrel of a gun.
Jeff wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:15 pm
Image

It’s interesting how so many ‘conservatives’ love to repeat the words of communists, as defense of repeating their actions and ideology.
Jeff would do well to read up on the cultural revolution and how violent, armed, easily manipulated partisan pols taught to see intellectuals as enemies aren't the solution to oppressive governments but the tool of those governments that keep them in power.
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Dr. Shades
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

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Physics Guy wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:13 am
Yeah, how the heck is widespread civilian gun ownership supposed to deter invasion of First-World countries today? . . . So now these hypothetical modern-day Viking invaders are rampaging through the cities and countryside. A bunch of disorganised civilians with thousands of different models of weapons and limited ammunition supply are somehow going to be a serious problem for a force that has just demolished the world's most powerful and modern militaries?

Are these invaders even going to have been deterred at all by those extra armed civilians they'll face after military victory? This enemy would be gung-ho to roll the dice with the armoured divisions, but Billy-Bob with his trusty AR-15, ooo, he scares them?
Mass shooters seem to scare a lot of people. Imagine how many mass shooters would appear when and where invading soldiers congregated. Do you think a potential invading force wouldn't be aware of that?
If it really works that way, then go for it. Defund and disband the armed forces. Save the cash. Who needs a nuclear fleet when you've got ten million good ol' boys with their squirrel guns?
It saves civilian lives and property to stop invading forces en route.
I have a lot of respect and gratitude for Dr Shades' achievements as founder of this board. But I do have the impression that he sometimes posts off the cuff, and that he is not very interested in explaining or justifying his views.
I didn't think the deterrent effect of an armed populace required any explanation.
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Marcus
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by Marcus »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:00 pm
Physics Guy wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:13 am
Yeah, how the heck is widespread civilian gun ownership supposed to deter invasion of First-World countries today? . . . So now these hypothetical modern-day Viking invaders are rampaging through the cities and countryside. A bunch of disorganised civilians with thousands of different models of weapons and limited ammunition supply are somehow going to be a serious problem for a force that has just demolished the world's most powerful and modern militaries?

Are these invaders even going to have been deterred at all by those extra armed civilians they'll face after military victory? This enemy would be gung-ho to roll the dice with the armoured divisions, but Billy-Bob with his trusty AR-15, ooo, he scares them?
Mass shooters seem to scare a lot of people. Imagine how many mass shooters would appear when and where invading soldiers congregated. Do you think a potential invading force wouldn't be aware of that?
If it really works that way, then go for it. Defund and disband the armed forces. Save the cash. Who needs a nuclear fleet when you've got ten million good ol' boys with their squirrel guns?
It saves civilian lives and property to stop invading forces en route.
I have a lot of respect and gratitude for Dr Shades' achievements as founder of this board. But I do have the impression that he sometimes posts off the cuff, and that he is not very interested in explaining or justifying his views.
I didn't think the deterrent effect of an armed populace required any explanation.
it really does require an explanation, for the reasons PG specified above. how will it "stop invading forces," "en route" or not?
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Dr. Shades
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

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Marcus wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:12 pm
it really does require an explanation, for the reasons PG specified above. how will it "stop invading forces," "en route" or not?
All gun-owning civilians behind the front lines will become snipers.
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honorentheos
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by honorentheos »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:00 am
Marcus wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:12 pm
it really does require an explanation, for the reasons PG specified above. how will it "stop invading forces," "en route" or not?
All gun-owning civilians behind the front lines will become snipers.
So we've been wasting billions of dollars a year on military spending when we could have relied on private citizens spending their own money on forming the main deterent force against an attack on our country. Makes total sense.

Alternatively this shows how much the fantasy of being a chairborn ranger hero is built into the marketing and fetishizing of firearms.

One of those statements is significantly more probable than the other.
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Dr. Shades
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

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honorentheos wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:04 am
So we've been wasting billions of dollars a year on military spending when we could have relied on private citizens spending their own money on forming the main deterent force against an attack on our country.
That's what the Founding Fathers had in mind.
Alternatively this shows how much the fantasy of being a chairborn ranger hero is built into the marketing and fetishizing of firearms.
Was I wrong, or was I right? Think of the gun owners you know or know of. If a foreign country invades and manages to defeat the U.S. military, will they just sit idly by and accept the new normal, letting their firearms gather dust?

Be honest.
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Re: The 2nd Amendment in the 21st Century

Post by Binger »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:23 pm
honorentheos wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:04 am
So we've been wasting billions of dollars a year on military spending when we could have relied on private citizens spending their own money on forming the main deterent force against an attack on our country.
That's what the Founding Fathers had in mind.
Alternatively this shows how much the fantasy of being a chairborn ranger hero is built into the marketing and fetishizing of firearms.
Was I wrong, or was I right? Think of the gun owners you know or know of. If a foreign country invades and manages to defeat the U.S. military, will they just sit idly by and accept the new normal, letting their firearms gather dust?

Be honest.
Honestly. Yes. There would be millions of guns that would gather dust in that scenario. MILLIONS. Many gun owners have collections that are not compatible with today's ammunition. Guns with Damascus barrels are very expensive and stunning to look at but they are unsafe to use with contemporary ammo. Revolvers are more reliable (generally speaking) than semi-automatic pistols but would not be used nearly as much, except for dramatic effect in the film industry. Some gun owners could not carry a fraction of their collection to their truck without a forklift. These guns are gathering dust and rust unless they are in dehumidified safes.

The real question, to me, is whether "they" sit idly by and let their ammo gather dust. The answer to that is, emphatically, "no."

This answer is a clarification only and not meant to dignify the suggestion that all these firearms are acquired for fetish purposes. Neither does this answer dignify the suggestion that they are bought as part of a fantasy of being a "chairborn" ranger. Such suggestions will continue to be made, I am sure. And, I am equally sure that these suggestions will continue to erode any credibility in debates about rights, safety, control, violence and crime.
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