Gas goes to $9.45/gallon in Mendecino, CA

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honorentheos
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Re: Gas goes to $9.45/gallon in Mendecino, CA

Post by honorentheos »

ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:53 am
Gasoline costs $0.22/gallon in Venezuela. So it's not that expensive to actually pump it and refine it. The $5 or more extra that the world is paying now seems to be more about politics than production costs.
:lol:
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canpakes
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Re: Gas goes to $9.45/gallon in Mendecino, CA

Post by canpakes »

honorentheos wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:46 pm
ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:53 am
Gasoline costs $0.22/gallon in Venezuela. So it's not that expensive to actually pump it and refine it. The $5 or more extra that the world is paying now seems to be more about politics than production costs.
:lol:
From 2021:
Venezuela has a dual-pricing system, with one subsidized amount and a separate “international” price of 50 cents per liter or $2.27 per gallon.

ajax, do you really believe that US oil companies can extract oil and refine it into gas for a retail cost of .22 a gallon?
Vēritās
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Re: Gas goes to $9.45/gallon in Mendecino, CA

Post by Vēritās »

ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:03 pm
Jersey Girl wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:59 am
Just saw this question of yours in Gunnar's reply.



Do you think the oil companies are planning for that eventuality or do you think they're just going to go belly up?
I think you got the gas prices and economy that you voted for.
No one votes for gas prices, and gas prices have absolutely nothing to do with who is President. This is just an objectively true fact that is understood by anyone who passed basic economics. It is sad that so many on the Right are trying to politicize this on issue in an effort to take focus away from Biden's booming economy. If you understand how supply and demand work, then you know why gas prices are higher now. All the evidence is there to verify. Suppliers cut supplies during the pandemic when the economy was in Trump's recession, but then they refused to ramp up supplies when the economy is booming to keep pace with demand. It really is that simple. No pipeline from Canada ever had a prayer in preventing this spike. No amount of drilling on Federal lands ever had a prayer in preventing this spike.

Gas prices are a result of free market capitalism doing what it does best; screws the poorer class to the benefit a few at the top. If the Right is going to credit Biden for all the massive profits the oil companies are pulling in without using his authority to stomp out such toxic capitalism, then they should at least stop calling him a socialist.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Gas goes to $9.45/gallon in Mendecino, CA

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Gunnar wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:40 am
ajax18 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:21 pm
Would you invest in oil and gasoline now if you knew that a year from now that the government and climate change crowd is just going to crack down again to the point that it's unprofitable? You're smart enough to comprehend this. People like Joe Biden ans Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are not.
This is a prime example of the incoherent nonsensical arguments we have come to expect from you.

ETA: Because we are using fossil fuels hundreds (if not thousands) of times faster than nature is producing them, it will, sooner than you think, become increasingly hard to find as yet untapped sources, and ever more expensive to extract them. Thus they will inevitably become both more expensive and less profitable, no matter what anyone tries to do about it -- government or not.
Faster. My wife and I have said to each other on more than a few occasions that us humans should be treating oil as a precious resource, sipping it so to speak, and taking a long-term view of energy use. People are gorging themselves on oil, driving insanely inefficient passenger vehicles with no thought to humanity’s future in 20, 50, or 300 years from now. Fuel produced from oil should be reserved for cargo ships, trains, and airplanes. What we’re doing right now is a grievous sin, but the absolute dogshit-tier Conservatoids simply can’t reason this out. We’re in an impossible situation that’ll result in some crazy realities when he chickens come home to roost (we might even be seeing it hit home now).

- Doc
1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
5. Stupidity is power.
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Re: Gas goes to $9.45/gallon in Mendecino, CA

Post by Vēritās »

ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:53 am
Are you proposing corporate tax cuts for green energy? What's stopping the Democrats from doing that now? At $5/gallon, electric cars still aren't competitive with gasoline powered engines.
And why is that? Because for years the Oil Industry's biggest apologists (Republicans) have mocked the concept of electric cars.
ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:53 am
Even if I wanted to buy an electric car, it takes more than a year to get one.
Not true. My sister in law ordered a Tesla last month and it is being delivered next month. The New car shortage is not limited to just EVs either.
ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:53 am
What do you mean by investment? Are you saying that if you throw enough taxpayer money into green energy corporate welfare
Why is it only "corporate welfare" when it is to subsidize things Liberals want?
ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:53 am
that undoubtedly someone will discover a way to make solar and wind power more efficient than gasoline?
These things are already much more efficient than fossil fuels.
OG-AC566_energy_G_20140912133724.jpg
OG-AC566_energy_G_20140912133724.jpg (80.5 KiB) Viewed 78 times
ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:53 am
Show me the technology that has already been developed that makes green energy cheaper than coal and oil.
Solar is infinitely cheaper than both.

ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:53 am
Gasoline costs $0.22/gallon in Venezuela. So it's not that expensive to actually pump it and refine it. The $5 or more extra that the world is paying now seems to be more about politics than production costs.
??????
ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:53 am
These are the fruits of your policy.
No, there is no causation here from whatever "policy" you're imagining exists.
ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:53 am
Start being honest with your base about what green energy actually costs. Stop trying to misdirect and blame Putin.
Blaming Putin? Stating the objectively true fact that Putin's war has added at least $1.50 to the cost of gasoline is just stating an objectively true fact.
ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:53 am
Stop trying to blame Trump.
Stating the objectively true fact that Trump made a deal with Saudi Arabia so they would lower production is just stating a fact.
ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:53 am
Democrats have controlled all three branches of government for the last two years and this economy is the result of their policies.
This is not true at all. If they controlled everything they'd be passing all the things they'd want to pass. To ignore this is just being disingenuous.
ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:53 am
If the economy were a patient in the ICU unit in an artificial coma (induced by the COVID lockdown policy) all chief surgeon Biden would have had to do was come in and smile and watch the patient roar back to the Trump economy of 2019. Instead he chose to cut his lifeblood (gasoline), pump him with cocaine (stimulus checks), and show the world how weak the patient was (Afghanistan).
Cute, but clearly you do not understand how the economy works if you're forced to make some of these ridiculous comments and analogies. If you understood economics and history you'd know that the economy typically does much better with a Democrat in the White House. This is something that is historically true. In the game of starting recessions the Republicans are beating Democrats 5-0 since Reagan.

And the Trump economy of 2019 was modest at best. Job growth was meager, GDP was flat, and gas had gone up from $1.87 to $2.90 before the pandemic caused it to crash. But during Trump the deficit was exploding with his reckless spending and the money supply quadrupled under his watch, which is why we have today's inflation. Don't take my word for it, Conservative economists have been arguing for decades that increased money supplies translates to rampant inflation.

As far as cutting off the "lifeblood", nothing has been "cut off." People are still paying to drive across country knowing full well what the price of gas is. Again, it is called the free market. If the price is really "too high" then the consumers would cut back on consumption until prices come back down. The only oil "cut off" was that coming from Russia, and it was a bi-partisan effort to place an embargo on Russian oil. Biden knew it would likely hurt him politically and Republicans were licking their chops hoping he'd pull that trigger. And he did, and gasoline has gone up as a result. But what he did needed to be done, and the majority of the world praises him for having the guts to do what was right even though he knew it was against his own personal political interests. Others with less integrity will be dishonest and attack him for it.

Republicans Pushed Biden to Ban Russian Oil. Now They’ll Attack Him for the Results.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: Gas goes to $9.45/gallon in Mendecino, CA

Post by Jersey Girl »

ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:03 pm
Jersey Girl wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:59 am
Just saw this question of yours in Gunnar's reply.



Do you think the oil companies are planning for that eventuality or do you think they're just going to go belly up?
I think you got the gas prices and economy that you voted for.

Please answer the question that I posed to you.
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ajax18
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Re: Gas goes to $9.45/gallon in Mendecino, CA

Post by ajax18 »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:30 pm
ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:03 pm


I think you got the gas prices and economy that you voted for.

Please answer the question that I posed to you.
I don't know. Oil companies claim they are going green. What does it matter?

Investors buy based on whether a stock will make money 4-5 years from now, not today or tomorrow. You can't claim you're pressuring oil companies to increase production while seeking to outlaw them at the same time.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Re: Gas goes to $9.45/gallon in Mendecino, CA

Post by Gunnar »

ajax18 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:53 am
Are you proposing corporate tax cuts for green energy? What's stopping the Democrats from doing that now? At $5/gallon, electric cars still aren't competitive with gasoline powered engines. Even if I wanted to buy an electric car, it takes more than a year to get one. What do you mean by investment? Are you saying that if you throw enough taxpayer money into green energy corporate welfare that undoubtedly someone will discover a way to make solar and wind power more efficient than gasoline? We've been talking about this for some time. Show me the technology that has already been developed that makes green energy cheaper than coal and oil. Gasoline costs $0.22/gallon in Venezuela. So it's not that expensive to actually pump it and refine it. The $5 or more extra that the world is paying now seems to be more about politics than production costs.

These are the fruits of your policy. Start being honest with your base about what green energy actually costs. Stop trying to misdirect and blame Putin. Stop trying to blame Trump. Democrats have controlled all three branches of government for the last two years and this economy is the result of their policies. If the economy were a patient in the ICU unit in an artificial coma (induced by the COVID lockdown policy) all chief surgeon Biden would have had to do was come in and smile and watch the patient roar back to the Trump economy of 2019. Instead he chose to cut his lifeblood (gasoline), pump him with cocaine (stimulus checks), and show the world how weak the patient was (Afghanistan).
As I thought, you obviously didn't even bother to try to look at or understand the RMI website and the wealth of information there that conclusively proves you wrong. Instead, you offered up a bunch of incoherent and seriously misinformed nonsense that Doc Cam, Vēritās (especially) and others have already blown to smithereens, not only in this thread but in previous discussions, and more effectively and authoritatively than I could! And still you persist in maintaining your delusions and tragically misinformed position! As I have repeatedly said: "backfire effect on steroids!" And you still are entirely clueless about how big a fool of yourself you continue to make!

You said "At $5/gallon, electric cars still aren't competitive with gasoline powered engines." You obviously haven't done the math and probably don't even know how to do it. I have done the math. Let's compare a typical gas-guzzling SUV getting 15 miles per gallon with an EV costing $15,000 dollars more getting the MPGE equivalent of 105 (typical for Teslas, for example). By my calculations it would take only 52,500 miles of driving for the total fuel savings alone to pay for the additional purchase price of the EV. At gasoline price per gallon of $9.45 it would take less than 28,000 miles for the fuel savings alone to offset the price differential. And this does not count the savings due to not having to make oil changes, replacing oil and air filters, replacing worn spark plugs, periodic engine tune ups, and a bunch of other regular maintenance costs associated with ICE powered cars that would not be necessary with EVs. Add to this the fact that due to regenerative braking, brake linings would rarely have to be replaced due to wear. Furthermore, the difference in price between ICE powered cars and EVs will continue to decrease, and should theoretically become cheaper to build than ICE cars in the near future because they have far fewer complex and expensive moving parts.

But I expect you will continue to be a textbook example of "backfire effect."
Last edited by Gunnar on Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:35 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Gas goes to $9.45/gallon in Mendecino, CA

Post by Gunnar »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:00 pm
Faster. My wife and I have said to each other on more than a few occasions that us humans should be treating oil as a precious resource, sipping it so to speak, and taking a long-term view of energy use. People are gorging themselves on oil, driving insanely inefficient passenger vehicles with no thought to humanity’s future in 20, 50, or 300 years from now. Fuel produced from oil should be reserved for cargo ships, trains, and airplanes. What we’re doing right now is a grievous sin, but the absolute dogshit-tier Conservatoids simply can’t reason this out. We’re in an impossible situation that’ll result in some crazy realities when he chickens come home to roost (we might even be seeing it hit home now).

- Doc
Thanks, Doc. You are certainly right about all the above, except I am not sure that it is necessarily true that "Conservatoids simply can't reason this out." I'm convinced that at least some of them know this is true, and simply don't care because they know they will already be safely laid to rest in their graves before the worst of the coming crap mankind will be subjected to hits the fan.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: Gas goes to $9.45/gallon in Mendecino, CA

Post by Gunnar »

Gunnar wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:51 am
You said "At $5/gallon, electric cars still aren't competitive with gasoline powered engines." You obviously haven't done the math and probably don't even know how to do it. I have done the math. Let's compare a typical gas-guzzling SUV getting 15 miles per gallon with an EV costing $15,000 dollars more getting the MPGE equivalent of 105 (typical for Teslas, for example). By my calculations it would take only 52,500 miles of driving for the total fuel savings alone to pay for the additional purchase price of the EV. At gasoline price per gallon of $9.45 it would take less than 28,000 miles for the fuel savings alone to offset the price differential.
I should hasten to add that these are ballpark figures, assuming that MPGE includes the assumption that the price per gallon of gasoline is equal or close to the cost of the electrical energy equivalent of a gallon of gas, which would be rarely exactly true. There are approximately 33.7 kilowatt hours of energy in a gallon of gasoline. In my area, the cost per kilowatt hour is 25 cents. Thus the cost of the electrical energy equivalent of a gallon of gasoline would be $8.425. Thus the cost per mile of driving an EV with an efficiency of 105 MPGE would be about 8.02 cents per mile. The cost of driving an ICE SUV that gets 15 MPG would be 33 and 1/3 cents. The difference is about 25.3 cents per mile. Thus it would take 59,266 miles of driving to offset the $15,000 differential in price between the two cars.

With $9.45 per gallon gasoline, the fuel cost per mile of driving would be 63 cents per mile with the ICE car, almost 55 cents more than driving the EV. In which case it would take only 27,272 miles of driving to offset the price difference between the two cars. Again, though, this does not include the significant savings due to the much lower periodic maintenance cost of the EV, compared to the ICE car.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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